Weapon strategy

@bring_um_on_1000 I have a similar question.

Which is better? (For example) Using a level 12 gun with no upgrade but more power? Or level 11 gun with less power but all the upgrades?

I guess my question is which kills better- the higher number or the upgrades?

Comments

  • LawdogLawdog Member Posts: 836
    The upgrades are traits that are more times than not-essential to your survivor.I would go with the 11.
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    It depends on the weapon traits entirely. Some times you have a survivor doing nothing, like on reverse escape - all they do is open the door. So if you have a weapon with gold luck, you want that on them. doesn't matter what level the weapon is because all you care about is the increased dodge chance.

    Also, say your level 11 hunter rifle has gold bore. You would want to choose the level 11 over the level 12 because potential AGGREGATE damage is higher. Shooting a single target vs shooting multiple targets. Soften them up, then finish them off. This is the strategy behind assaults. One assault at higher level is not so strong... But two are REALLY powerful because two assaults can simply clean up large groups of walkers every turn.

    TL;DR: It depends heavily on your itemization and the map/situation. You have to treat each situation individually and choose the best loadout for that mission.
    Sabrinaicpathua
  • SenoiaSurvivorSenoiaSurvivor Member Posts: 528
    Thanks for the tips.
    This is my first time playing RPG. Slightly addictive. Who knew that I would like to shoot things. ;)
  • AstraeaAstraea Member Posts: 41
    I prefer decapacitation myself, but it's still satisfying to shoot 'em between the eyes i suppose ;)
    The dead are hungry too!
    SenoiaSurvivor
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    This game is a TBS, not an RPG. Turn-based strategy. It borrows a lot from the very first TBS game: XCOM UFO Defense, which was released in 1995 on PC and re-made in 2012.
    Sky
  • SenoiaSurvivorSenoiaSurvivor Member Posts: 528
    edited January 2016
    Ah ha. See. I learned something.

    But the reason I thought that is because that is what is in its description on the Play Store."

    I've looked for others similar but Im not very competitive. Don't want to make allies, just want to play my game and do my thing.
  • SabrinaSabrina Member Posts: 144
    edited January 2016
    @SenoiaSurvivor In my experiences it depends much of the weapon and its features as @zoson said . I have assault lv17/20 and it is not possible to upgrade gear for it. It has lv17 legendary (*****) Old Frontier which hits 304. I use it in basic missions but this assaiult makes more damage w fully upgraded lv14 epic (****) Defender AR99 w 45d cone and 278 hit. lv14 weapon do not kill lv18 zombies but combined w stun charge, it is cooler than non-upgraded lv17 weapon which basically hits 26p harder.

    So some fully upgraded weapon can be more effective than up 3 lv weapon. Maybe the more important thing is, that u select suitable weapons with suitable features w ur playing style. Because I'm not a good player i priorize cone w assault weapons, wide w hunter weapons, grid w shooter weapons and so on.

    I also agree totally w @zoson , in many - specially Episode missions - the suitable combo is crucial. There is for example that warrior freeing mission. I tried and tried it w bruiser and shooter w no luck. After I chanced shooter to scout (>silence) it was very easy in first try.
    - Sabrina, lv60 LVT (Life-TIme Profit), Elder of Suomikilta I-V -
    SkySenoiaSurvivor
  • CmlCml Member Posts: 75
    @Sabrina a fully upgraded lvl14 DefenderAR99 will also be a lvl17 weapon. So the 26 extra attack points of the Old Frontier comes from it being legendary instead of epic.
    A weapon 3 lvls up will hit significantly harder.
    However, if there's a 1lvl difference I would usually go for the one with full traits.
    Sabrina
  • SabrinaSabrina Member Posts: 144
    @Cml U're right! Thnx to make this exact :) I just wrote notions about weapons and didn't think this deeply :)
    - Sabrina, lv60 LVT (Life-TIme Profit), Elder of Suomikilta I-V -
  • SenoiaSurvivorSenoiaSurvivor Member Posts: 528
    @Sabrina I play in a similar way. My goal is to take out as many walkers with as much distance between survivors and them as possible. Wide range anything is key!

    What about gear? (Vests, jackets) Do you guys invest XP in upgrading or just go with whatever your highest level is?
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    edited February 2016
    If armor does not have silver or gold dodge, I throw it away. If you can stack dodge + luck and get to ~50% chance, that's way better than any increased amount of health or damage reduction. HP and DR simply do not matter if you don't get hit in the first place.

    This is why my 15/15 Legendary Assault with a level 17/14 legendary assault rifle is still using level 8 armor. It's the ONLY Assault armor I have that grants 15% chance to dodge.
    SenoiaSurvivor[Deleted User]
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    @zoson the only flaw with your logic is that when you do get hit, it does a lot more damage. Often the rolls are not in my favor anyway so I would rather take a hit that does less damage...

    So I don't dodge as much but I can take 1 hit before going to the ER.
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    edited February 2016
    @Helio You can still get DR on that armor, and level does not affect DR. If it's legendary you can still even get gold DR.

    Think about it like this:
    Remove 100% of the damage half of the time.
    VS
    Remove 30% of the damage all the time.
  • SoyevSoyev Member Posts: 130
    @zoson Jagged Alliance was the first I remember. I just googled and it was 1994. Equally awesome as Xcom.
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    @zoson Exactly. I would rather take the 30% all the time as I rarely get hit more than once vs the unlucky 1 hit every other time and having to now wait for ER.

    So we do 10 runs... And get hit once each run... and assuming 50% dodge you are sent to the ER 5 times... I don't dodge at all, and yet I don't get sent to ER.
  • SenoiaSurvivorSenoiaSurvivor Member Posts: 528
    So. ...split decision? :)

    How I've been playing it is to only upgrade traits that are of interest (like dodge). But honestly I'm having a hard time keeping up with the XPs to upgrade weapons and survivors. Gear is low on the priority list. Unless it's epic or legendary but there are few of those.
    ggbats
  • aysatyoaysatyo Member Posts: 352
    30% DR is good for a certain level of walkers. but for high level walkers, even with 30% DR, damage would still send your survivors to the hospital. In this case, dodge is better.
    zoson
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    edited February 2016
    I prefer to play more consistently vs lucky. Low level armor with high dodge relies too much on just 15%.

    I would definitely take a lvl 17 armor with 0% dodge and have 35% overall vs lvl 8 armor with 50% dodge overall.
  • aysatyoaysatyo Member Posts: 352
    ofcourse, high level armor is preferably better. but with same level, one with dodge and one with DR, take your pick..
  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,355
    High dodge is better than damage reduction for fat walkers. My Hunter stood her ground and dodged two attacks in a row for BBQ challenge. Even with DR it's a stun.
    ggbats
  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,355
    edited February 2016
    zoson said:

    @Helio You can still get DR on that armor, and level does not affect DR. If it's legendary you can still even get gold DR.

    Think about it like this:
    Remove 100% of the damage half of the time.
    VS
    Remove 30% of the damage all the time.

    Tversky and Kahneman, prospect theory.

    A )100% * 50%= 50%
    B )100%* 30%= 30%

    A is better than B in terms of % but B appeals because it's damage reduction, risk aversion.

    A )A drug will save 80 out of 100 people.
    B )A drug will kill 20 out of 100 people.

    Same percentage but A) is preferred because of save vs kill.
  • CapletonCapleton Member Posts: 441
    Soyev said:

    @zoson Jagged Alliance was the first I remember. I just googled and it was 1994. Equally awesome as Xcom.

    Thought the same...thanks for looking it up.
    Moriturus te salutat

    Found his home in Asylum
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    edited February 2016
    @Soyev @Capleton -
    Xcom was March 1994.
    Jagged alliance was June 1994.

    Xcom came first.

    @Helio
    At higher levels even with stacked 30%DR you get hit once and go straight into a struggle. No chance at all. Dodge you have a coin flip for no damage at all. Dodge is infinitely better for skilled players who get to high star counts. Also even with level 16 walkers, Abraham survives a hit without injury anyway.
  • CapletonCapleton Member Posts: 441
    @zoson Three months isn't too much time between. Guess they started programming Jagged Alliance before Xcom was released :)

    Thank you for the information though. I was used to play JA so maybe just wishful thinking it came first.
    Moriturus te salutat

    Found his home in Asylum
This discussion has been closed.