Remove Defensive Stance

darren83darren83 Member Posts: 4
edited January 2017 in General No Man's Land Discussion

Remove Defensive Stance 63 votes

Yes
79%
zosonPutchucosanchezi910Bill_ZRTdrkuharcapibaraDegreaser_V_Shut_UpOneLessTitanEL34xyzSgtSalamiAmazaynInspTurbinesZombie961shakhidJuanloSurvivor420TheCrabJaden 50 votes
No
20%
KaLiUrWaLkNDeAdeuchiddocfinzenburgTroublemakerJulialiciousavelardezszgerg77clausLenevirdisAnxietymellow_93OFS 13 votes
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Comments

  • darren83darren83 Member Posts: 4
    Why is the last trait upon promotion to legendary def stance it's usless and should be removed from the game this is the 3rd time I have gotten this usless pos trait all the players hate it why is it still in the game? There should be a option to reroll traits for a cost to be fair that would make me and alot of players happy
    UrWaLkNDeAdenigma12
  • SmittySpivey3SmittySpivey3 Member Posts: 324
    Yes
    OR improve the feature like many others such as the struggle wrestle feature was changed, and the gold bruiser stun, etc.
    CaptainslayerSurvivor420
  • warwar Member Posts: 454
    edited January 2017
    Yes
    You went to the forums like

    Survivor420weirdguyal
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    What's the problem with the trait? It makes you resistant to damage, right?
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    @sborg It has an increase to damage resist but only during overwatch. While not entirely useless, it doesn't really benefit my playing style. My logic is this: i only use overwatch on nearby enemies if I'm very confident my overwatch attack will kill them. If they are far away, i know im safe. If they are close and I don't think overwatch will kill them, i attack rather than overwatch because it will cause higher damage and better chance of kill. So the only time i get a benefit from the trait is when an enemy is close, overwatch doesn't kill them, and i get hit. It's a rare situation and one I strategically avoid whenever possible. I would find it more useful if it had just a plain defensive boost rather than only for overwatch, but that would make it basically a copy of iron skin.
    PigSurvivor420PowerUK
  • Marcus6253Marcus6253 Member Posts: 221
    @sborg To add on what @Mabiki said, it also takes up a slot that could be used for a more useful trait. Thus it has some limited use but is by far the most inferior of the traits.
    Survivor420
  • zosonzoson Member Posts: 2,216
    Yes
    "Defective Stance"
    masmith93Survivor420Stelio
  • capibaracapibara Member Posts: 6,847
    Yes
    "Defecable instance"
    "Always be yourself unless you can be a capybara. Then always be a capybara".
    --> Do you need a guild? ...send me a Private Message. My Recruiting den and my "Art Objects" in the Next Games Collection.
    SgtSalami
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    Does anyone know if outpost defenders are in Overwatch when attacked?
  • OFSOFS Member Posts: 4
    No
    I wonder how people would feel about say 10% nerf on Defensive stance and Vigilant, then merging them into a single trait. if you remove def stance, won't something else just end up being "the worst option?"
    Survivor420SCBMA
  • CaptainslayerCaptainslayer Member Posts: 1,430
    @sborg when you first open the gate and attack the defenders I'm reasonably sure no they're not in overwatch as they have no clue you're there (you can run straight past them without getting hit)
    Elder of dragons weyr a top USA guild
    Squall_NMLsborgSurvivor420enigma12
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    @OFS I like that idea. You're right that something will always be the least desired trait.

    I've actually done a lot of thinking about why DS and Vigilant are so disliked, by myself and on the forums in general. For a while I wondered of it was because they are so defensive in a game made for aggressive play, but I don't think that's correct since iron skin and dodge are purely defensive traits and still desirable. My tentative conclusion is that it's because they are the only traits whose effects are limited to overwatch only.

    Theoretically increased damage and damage resist are great, but since it's overwatch only, those have no game impact except in instances when you move 3 squares or less without attacking, and that really limits their usefulness.

    Combining them into a single, better ability might make up for the inherent limits of an overwatch-based trait.
    Survivor420OFS
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    Lucille896425 said:

    @sborg when you first open the gate and attack the defenders I'm reasonably sure no they're not in overwatch as they have no clue you're there (you can run straight past them without getting hit)

    I get hit often when trying to run past the defenders on the first move.
    Survivor420
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    @sborg

    Are you sure? If so, it's a glitch, because that is not possible in normal game mechanics. Maybe there's a miscommunication. On the turn you open the gate, when you only have two attackers to move, defenders should have no overwatch, so you can run past them or even stand next to them without getting hit. If you attack, they might retaliate. And when your turn ends, they will strike. But after one of your guys opens the gate, the other two cannot get hit by overwatch if they move within range of the defenders. This quality is what allows players to grab tg with scout and complete without fighting as long as the crate is not blocked.
    Squall_NMLMarcus6253Survivor420Captainslayer
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    Mabiki said:

    @sborg

    Are you sure? If so, it's a glitch, because that is not possible in normal game mechanics. Maybe there's a miscommunication. On the turn you open the gate, when you only have two attackers to move, defenders should have no overwatch, so you can run past them or even stand next to them without getting hit. If you attack, they might retaliate. And when your turn ends, they will strike. But after one of your guys opens the gate, the other two cannot get hit by overwatch if they move within range of the defenders. This quality is what allows players to grab tg with scout and complete without fighting as long as the crate is not blocked.

    I'm positive. I open the gate. I move all three survivors inside and out of view. I move my scout to get the tgs and it gets shot. I've started moving another survivor first to draw fire and then move the scout, but sometimes the scout gets hit also. I assumed it was a trait possessed by the defenders.
    Survivor420
  • Squall_NMLSquall_NML Member Posts: 737
    @sborg
    As Mabiki explained, in your case you might open the gate with 2nd survivors but no AP for the 3rd one, and auto end your turn. That way will make the defenders wake up from sleep and attack you :wink:
    Survivor420Captainslayer
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    Maybe it's the second move, after they get into the outpost, that's causing the fire.
  • sborgsborg Member Posts: 581
    Squall said:

    @sborg

    As Mabiki explained, in your case you might open the gate with 2nd survivors but no AP for the 3rd one, and auto end your turn. That way will make the defenders wake up from sleep and attack you :wink:

    Posted before I read your reply.
  • Squall_NMLSquall_NML Member Posts: 737
    You don't have to move your survivors inside. Grab in one go means, after open the gate, use your scout directly to get the stash in 1 move, while your 3rd survivors still has AP and complete the raid.
    Captainslayer
  • buchizombiebreathbuchizombiebreath Member Posts: 1,131
    Yes
    with the nerfed interrupt overwatch is worthless
  • secretzombiestalkersecretzombiestalker Member Posts: 37
    What does defensive stance supposedly do? It seems for my players, it doesn't do a whole heck of a lot.......maybe of it made a big difference that you could TELL it would be a more enjoyable feature....
    Survivor420
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    Yes
    What I really don't like about defective stance is how often it comes up. Some traits rarely come up. I can't hardly pull a new survivor without getting defensive stance or vigilant. Which are completely useless if you don't use survivor in overwatch. Traits are super important. Most same level defenders with same level weapons are separated by traits. Best traits win. If I got legendary with 4 good traits against legendary with 5 good traits guess who wins. On melee it's not that bad, but ranged I don't use in overwatch. I don't like how overwatch targets walkers, I use my ranged hunters and assault, I don't care for shooter, in offense mostly lining up walkers to kill multiples with one shot. I rarely ever use ranged for overwatch. Yet 9 out of 10 assault or hubters I pull have either defensive or vigilant. Why is it so common?!? Compared to power strike which hardly ever comes up. Either make it improved or get rid of it completely.
    InspTurbines
  • Survivor420Survivor420 Member Posts: 103
    Yes
    Also it has happened to me for a fact where I move my scout to take the and I take a hit from a defender. For a fact more than once. Not imagination not made up. Not after my turn. I'm talking I move scout to take the with still one defender who hasn't even moved and my scout rarely yes but does happen will take a hit. Mostly take the damage and keep moving to box. Collect box and complete. But definitely taking damage first. I have even had it where my scout gets dazed by bruiser and stop in its tracks and doesn't move. It's obviously a bug if everyone isn't noticing this, but it is definitely happening.
    CaptainslayerDeanTWD
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    Yes
    Defective stance enough said
    InspTurbines
  • InspTurbinesInspTurbines Member Posts: 706
    Yes
    They'll probably remove it when they do away with the equally useless wrestler trait for armor.
    bsgper4Governator
  • zbotzbot NML Legendary Moderator, OW Moderator Posts: 7,624
    Merged as it's the same topic.


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  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,336
    No
    It is one of the best traits mixed with a combo of others. Very deadly.
    JackBauerOneLessTitanCaptainslayer
  • DisaliveDisalive Member Posts: 58
    Yes
    Pretty sure most of defective stance supporters do not quite understand how it actually works...
    Why would a sane person want to stop and see how many hits his/her survivor can take before being injured/dead/whatever, or even being miraculously(!!!) saved by another dream trait - wrestler. It's always better to move and hit (while ranged), unless you're cornered or it's a very specific situation. And you cannot surely rely on 100%(lol...) interrupt even on your recommended RSL or below, cause body-shooting is a damn bullexcrement, so melee characters cannot effectively kite their targets using overwatch...

    I just can't come up with a normal situation where immobilizing yourself to take reduced damage would be highly (if any at all) beneficial to a player. Like the only place for this is outpost defence, but it's not worth to keep an otherways useless trait only for this.

    And the worst part is - it feels like 80% of characters/items come with these defective traits: defective stance, silenced and wrestler... Since they all are very situational (utterly useless to me) they should have like halved probability of showing up, compared to other ones (if not removed at all).

    Seems like this subject isn't worth of an official answer. NG had promised us new strategies when nerfing Luck, so people are still quite busy with one and most important - "try to avoid the shitty traits"...
    InspTurbinesSurvivor420avelardezZardox
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