NG gave refunds in the past. Why not now?

@Shteevie , I'd really appreciate an answer as to why a refund could be given in the past to Android users, but you keep saying it's not possible. Thank you in advance for replying.

Shadowkeeper Staff, Legendary Moderator
July 2016 edited July 2016
@Ruthless & anyone who asked about the Silenced trait.

The Silenced trait was indeed changed. The reason being, if you could combine that with Daryl's Silent Shot as a leader trait, it would be too powerful.

However, seeing as some of you bought a bundle with a weapon that has the Silenced trait, and that trait is now changed, we know that the weapon might no longer be the one that you wanted.

The trait was introduced in our update on June 28th. If you have bought a bundle with the Silenced trait since then, you can either contact our game support with the hashtag #silenced, attach a receipt of your purchase as well as a screenshot of the weapon in question, and we will compensate you with xp. Or if you want a refund, you can either contact us or Google Play to get it - unfortunately Apple users should contact Apple directly, as we can't handle Apple refunds.

This should have been communicated beforehand; sorry for the inconvenience
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Comments

  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    In the case of the silenced weapon change, consider the following:
    1) The silenced trait was originally an intentional feature of the weapon, which was indicated by the presence of the Silenced trait on the weapon. It had an icon, help text, etc. "Silenced" was even in the name!
    2) The change of the weapon was from one intentional state to another. For game balancing reasons [which I cannot personally speak to - it was before my time at NG], it was decided to edit the weapon in players' inventories away from the clearly-stated behavior of the weapon as it had existed.

    In the case of the molotov, please consider the following:
    1) The first version of the legendary weapon had underpowered traits. If players were worried that they would have a less-good version of the weapon than other players who bought it after them, we gave out free copies of the corrected weapon to everyone who bought one according to our event-tracking records. This makes sure that no one who didn't buy the molotov got a free one [unless there was a human error made, which is correctable].
    2) The issue relating to bodyshots was a bug. There was never any messaging from us that this was intentional, and any theories or rationalizations made by players as to why it might have been were not supported by any words or actions made by anyone at the company.
    3) The bodyshot behavior was unintentional. This is supported by the fact that the behavior is not referenced by any of the weapon's traits [especially considering that the bug duplicates the effects of the Piercing trait that already existed in the game], any marketing materials, social media or forums messages from us, and the several months of development work put forward to make Bodyshots a crucial balancing factor in end-game play.
    4) The fix of the bug applies to all copies of the weapon across all rarities. There is no favoritism or punishment being directed at anyone based on which version of the weapon that they have.
    5) None of the advertised features of the weapon were changed as a result of the fixing of the bodyshot bug. The attack power, traits, area of effect, etc. are all still what they were before, which shows that those values were and still are what was intended, and not set specifically as part of the balancing of a weapon that was secretly meant to never create bodyshots.

    In the case of the silenced weapon, the game sold you something that it thought would be fair, and ended up being overpowered. Since we had to change the item away from the weapon that was advertised, it made sense that additional action needed to be taken.

    In the case of the molotov, the change was to correct behavior that was never intended and represented a flaw in the game. Leaving the flaw in place would be damaging to the future game balance, and would obviate most of the other items, classes, heroes, and mechanics in the game. A team of 3 bottle-throwing survivors would be the best team in the game, hands down, and anyone who hadn't paid for those weapons would be at a permanent disadvantage. It is not hard to see why it was imperative that the bug was fixed and as soon as possible.

    Since we did not sell the weapon on the basis of the bug that we didn't know existed until after the weekend was over, we are not in the same position where we have had to deliberately change the weapon away from the state in which it was advertised. Rather, we have fixed a bug that restored the intended game balance and allowed the game to continue to be fair for everyone, including the free players.

    Software has bugs. Bugs need to be fixed. The weapon we advertised is the weapon you now have.

    I appreciate the frustration, and I hope you can at least see the logic from our standpoint. I understand your case, and I have never tried to claim that it was invalid. I deeply wish I had caught the bug before the weapon went out, because then we wouldn't have had some players basing a purchase off of a bug that no one had reported to us that never should have existed in the first place.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
  • R2runfastR2runfast Member Posts: 332
    Wait a minute, did u say the silenced trait is deemed to powerful? Does that even make sense?
    jmababaRedEye52
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,171
    @R2runfast Not saying I agree with them, but I think their logic was: with Daryl's leadership trait, Silenced, and potentially Luck on both a survivor and a weapon, one could come close to a 100% guarantee that ranged attacks wouldn't attract any walkers. Add a good Scout with high Threat Reduction to the mix, and it's possible that Silenced could be overpowered because one could completely avoid future waves of walkers.
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  • ArtisansArtisans Member Posts: 729
    @Shteevie, thank you for your eloquent reply. I understand what you're trying to get across with the difference in the weapon's traits. I get the balancing act. But it's really much simpler than all of that. I bought a weapon based on the experience I'd had with the free one. I'm not a number cruncher, I have little finesse in playing the game. Truth is, I didn't even realize the power potential of the weapon. Here's the bottom line for me and many of my guild mates. We spent $15 on a useless weapon. We just want our money back. You have the capability to do it, and the records to support it. What's so hard about that?
    Retired, but not entirely dead.
    "Really? Good luck with that!"
    PowerUK
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    R2runfast said:

    Wait a minute, did u say the silenced trait is deemed to powerful? Does that even make sense?

    I'm saying that this was the decision made at the time, as per the message that was pasted in at the top of the thread. It was also before my time, and so I cannot comment on the way the decision was made, because I was not there.

    I don't think that the weapon would be too good now, but this is part of the reason why the luck trait needed the decrease it got.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    @Artisans
    The experience you had with the common and rare versions was buggy, too. If we had been alerted about it, or found it ourselves [the greater responsibility for finding bugs is ours, of course], we would have fixed it before the Legendary one was on sale.

    If you weren't aware of the bug, and bought the weapon anyway, why are you upset that the thing you were sold is the thing that you received?
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    PowerUKArtisansSteeboon
  • bsgper4bsgper4 Member Posts: 309
    > @Shteevie said:
    > 4) The fix of the bug applies to all copies of the weapon across all rarities. There is no favoritism or punishment being directed at anyone based on which version of the weapon that they have.

    Great. So all of them have been screwed with. Including rares. So in attempting to make the game balanced we all have a weapon that just looks kool but provides little damage. Awesome.
    ArtisansRiestamongo911
  • PowerUKPowerUK Member Posts: 85
    edited January 2017
    "basing a purchase off of a bug that no one had reported to us that never should have existed in the first place."

    I based my purchase on a rare version of a weapon as released by the developers one month before date of purchase. In all reality,should I have to assume that anything released isn't working as NG intended? How am I to know what the developers envisaged?

    I'll happily test stuff n thangs before release. Provide the development plans and I'll tell you if items match the developers expectations. A better idea though would be to properly test things in-house before release.

    Mistakes will happen, every reasonable person excepts this. The difference this time is the one month time frame. Someone from NG had to have seen how the weapon was behaving. If not, why not?

    @Shteevie, putting the onus on the player to report every suspected bug will only give you guys more work. With little or no information to base the performance of newly released items on, every post on the forum will just read, is this working right?, should item a do this?, should item b do that?

    Power
  • ArtisansArtisans Member Posts: 729
    edited January 2017
    @Shteevie, just because I failed to recognize the potential of the weapon doesn't mean others didn't. I represent a sizable guild family. What I do recognize is that it seems blame is being shifted and basic questions not answered. It's not my intention to be adversarial. If a large number of customers are unhappy, why not satisfy them? No need to reply.
    Retired, but not entirely dead.
    "Really? Good luck with that!"
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  • R2runfastR2runfast Member Posts: 332
    A "silenced trait" in reality and in gaming situations should work damn near 100% of the time. Unless the silencer breaks somehow or falls off the gun. Idk, whatever. Just my stupid 2 cents.
  • PowerUKPowerUK Member Posts: 85

    If you weren't aware of the bug, and bought the weapon anyway, why are you upset that the thing you were sold is the thing that you received?


    I wasn't aware it was bugged. NG let me use it for one month.It can't be bugged. I bought the legendary version of my not-bugged item. NG tell me both versions are bugged. NG apply fix. The thing I now have is not the thing I bought.

    I left out the bit about the trait % mistake as I had enough information when comparing the rare and legendary versions to spot this bug and report it.

    Power
    ggbats
  • crb22075crb22075 Member Posts: 88
    edited January 2017
    @shteevie It's clear that there are a lot of unhappy people myself included and a refund would be a sign that you at least care about the people who make your product what it is. But instead you would tell us to basically pound sand and give us a free version of the same weapon we already have issues with with a little upgrade on the traits and expect us to spend more time and resources upgrading it . How gullible do you think people are. If you wanted to make this right you could. And when I say you I mean ng not you personally.
    ArtisansRiesta
  • SebiSebi Posts: 146
    And how is right and fair that some players to have 2 weapons and some just 1 and both players paying same 15 bucks?? It's crazy even to try to convince me this is just. I don't believe in coincidence. 48 hours after they sell it it gets nerfed.How convenient. Give us the money back! !!it's not the value per se it's the fact you deceived us all and sold us a big lie.Make it right!!!
  • GrimmPersonaGrimmPersona Member Posts: 4
    > @JayZ said:
    > @R2runfast Not saying I agree with them, but I think their logic was: with Daryl's leadership trait, Silenced, and potentially Luck on both a survivor and a weapon, one could come close to a 100% guarantee that ranged attacks wouldn't attract any walkers. Add a good Scout with high Threat Reduction to the mix, and it's possible that Silenced could be overpowered because one could completely avoid future waves of walkers.

    I understand this idea but the same goes for using michonne as a leader and any scout with 75% reduction and Luck as a survivor trait or weapon trait at level 6 luck (20%) gold luck (20%) and gold threat reduction (75%) and michonnes ability (16%) you can not tell me silenced was overpowered... Definate 100% threat reduction is the same as 100% no threat if not better.
  • TroubleManTroubleMan Member Posts: 423
    Yet another reason why NG will not be getting any of my money. I love how every time a sold bundle is nerfed, it's due to an 'accident'. And yet they feel entitled to hold onto their ill gotten profits as though it was 'earned'.

    Sure we promised you a 5 room house with a 2 car garage (after they receive full payment)

    So, we had to make a few modifications to your house, it's now a 1 room pull behind trailer with a port-a-potty attached. We felt the initial house was 'too powerful'. And you do not get any money back, because, well...that's how we roll.

    And that folks, sums up NG.

    SCBMASebiR2runfastRedEye52
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,043
    I remember that issues. They silenced us with full XP as I remember for compensation. Well that is what I got for it. There was even a link here somewhere that said it. Still have that pistol not pistol(s). It worked great as full interrupt plus that luck.
    Walkerballz
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522

    Yet another reason why NG will not be getting any of my money. I love how every time a sold bundle is nerfed, it's due to an 'accident'. And yet they feel entitled to hold onto their ill gotten profits as though it was 'earned'.

    Sure we promised you a 5 room house with a 2 car garage (after they receive full payment)

    So, we had to make a few modifications to your house, it's now a 1 room pull behind trailer with a port-a-potty attached. We felt the initial house was 'too powerful'. And you do not get any money back, because, well...that's how we roll.

    And that folks, sums up NG.

    Nope, you got the 5 room house and the 2 car garage, but the hot neighbor you were stalking moved out, and now you are upset that you can't stalk her and you want your money back for the house...

  • TroubleManTroubleMan Member Posts: 423
    No, when NG sells something it's always with a catch. As in "buy it now...because today it's going to have totally different traits that you neither asked for, nor were wanting".
  • ArtisansArtisans Member Posts: 729
    edited January 2017
    @Helio, cheerleading again? Attacking others? Hijacking the thread for you own incomprehensible agenda? @zbot?
    Retired, but not entirely dead.
    "Really? Good luck with that!"
    mongo911SCBMAkryptonix
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    @Artisans
    When I wrote it, I didn't see it as an attack, as his analogy was completely off and I was making it more realistic to the situation at hand.

    And I fail to see how it was cheerleading, but clearly your intentions are only to insult and belittle...

    Artisans
  • TroubleManTroubleMan Member Posts: 423
    @Helio the analogy is not off. NG has a long history of selling bundles with certain traits, typically very desirable traits. Then after the big bundle sale is over, they kneecap the items by nerfing the very traits they JUST SOLD.

    This goes way back to last year, with the nerfing of the pistol traits. It was a HUGE uproar, and that debacle is apparently being repeated.

    Your insinuation about stalking is appalling, disgusting and off the mark. It was an attack, and a personal one at that.
    SCBMAkryptonixArtisans
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