So NG has decided that they're going to cash in on their "mistake"
Goshinki
Member Posts: 7
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm normally the first guy to defend the changes NG makes that the player base doesn't like. A more balanced game is a more fun game, and any video game production company is a business first and a provider of entertainment second. But let me explain why the way they are dealing with the Reckoning situation is such a problem this time and so completely beyond the pale...
They are of course refusing any refunds for people that purchased the Reckoning because it did not make body shots, claiming that it was an unintended bug, and they are implying that the people that bought the Reckoning were intentionally exploiting. That is false, because we assumed a shred of competency on NG's part. How does such a glaring oversight go on for so long? Most of us consider that extremely unlikely. Then when you consider that the Reckoning is a real POS without body shot immunity, having a smaller hit area than that of a standard assault weapon and turning walkers into more dangerous flaming walkers, and that it's a fire weapon that doesn't utilize bullets, it was PERFECTLY VALID TO ASSUME THAT THE BODY SHOT IMMUNITY WAS INTENTIONAL. Regardless of whether it was "advertised", it was implied through more ways than one to be a feature, not an outlandish error. Turns out the misleading nature of this weapon was a trap for spending players.
And so what if this WAS the result of incompetence? Is that really any better? Does that somehow make it acceptable? Are we supposed to presume what's going on with their game mechanics when they themselves are so clueless? And as bad as that is, that's the OFFICIAL story; the BEST case scenario, which most of us don't buy anyway.
The question then becomes "don't they test changes before they roll them out?" and the obvious answer is "of course they do," and so that's why so many of us believe that this was an intentional scheme. In this world of corporate money-grubbing, considering the end result, which is NG unfairly enriching themselves, doesn't that seem likelier?... Absolutely. You would think that they would at the very least want to distance themselves from that image by offering a few refunds, when they are already making plenty of money with hundreds of legitimate bundles. Their unwillingness to take responsibility for their supposed blunder is only further evidence to the contrary.
Whether this was an accident or a deliberate deception, the results were the same.... Next Games lined their pockets at the expense of confused players. Just because the glitch was never "intended," the "intention" to profit off of it is very real and very inappropriate. If it was not intended you should be proving it by refunding the money you took from players that had faith in your abilities to administer a game.
I've heard a lot of people say that they are never watching an ad or buying anything in the store again, but that's not enough, because they still salivate over their number of daily logins. This is a poorly designed game anyway and I would encourage you all to remove it from your devices.
NG, it's been fun, but you're flagrant lack of respect for me and the rest of your consumer base has ruined the game. Before I go though, I thought it would be fun to showcase how great of a costumer I've been to you, so you can decide whether losing me, and many others like me, was worth the $17.
Here is every purchase I've ever made in TWD:NML -- http://m.imgur.com/a/eYghW
If you also feel that NG has abused your generosity and you won't be playing any more, post here, and hopefully together we can make them think twice before pulling such stunts in the future.
Finally, here is a link you can use to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau: https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started ... and when you do, be sure to make it clear that this was an unsavory money grab, citing details, and not routine rebalancing.
They are of course refusing any refunds for people that purchased the Reckoning because it did not make body shots, claiming that it was an unintended bug, and they are implying that the people that bought the Reckoning were intentionally exploiting. That is false, because we assumed a shred of competency on NG's part. How does such a glaring oversight go on for so long? Most of us consider that extremely unlikely. Then when you consider that the Reckoning is a real POS without body shot immunity, having a smaller hit area than that of a standard assault weapon and turning walkers into more dangerous flaming walkers, and that it's a fire weapon that doesn't utilize bullets, it was PERFECTLY VALID TO ASSUME THAT THE BODY SHOT IMMUNITY WAS INTENTIONAL. Regardless of whether it was "advertised", it was implied through more ways than one to be a feature, not an outlandish error. Turns out the misleading nature of this weapon was a trap for spending players.
And so what if this WAS the result of incompetence? Is that really any better? Does that somehow make it acceptable? Are we supposed to presume what's going on with their game mechanics when they themselves are so clueless? And as bad as that is, that's the OFFICIAL story; the BEST case scenario, which most of us don't buy anyway.
The question then becomes "don't they test changes before they roll them out?" and the obvious answer is "of course they do," and so that's why so many of us believe that this was an intentional scheme. In this world of corporate money-grubbing, considering the end result, which is NG unfairly enriching themselves, doesn't that seem likelier?... Absolutely. You would think that they would at the very least want to distance themselves from that image by offering a few refunds, when they are already making plenty of money with hundreds of legitimate bundles. Their unwillingness to take responsibility for their supposed blunder is only further evidence to the contrary.
Whether this was an accident or a deliberate deception, the results were the same.... Next Games lined their pockets at the expense of confused players. Just because the glitch was never "intended," the "intention" to profit off of it is very real and very inappropriate. If it was not intended you should be proving it by refunding the money you took from players that had faith in your abilities to administer a game.
I've heard a lot of people say that they are never watching an ad or buying anything in the store again, but that's not enough, because they still salivate over their number of daily logins. This is a poorly designed game anyway and I would encourage you all to remove it from your devices.
NG, it's been fun, but you're flagrant lack of respect for me and the rest of your consumer base has ruined the game. Before I go though, I thought it would be fun to showcase how great of a costumer I've been to you, so you can decide whether losing me, and many others like me, was worth the $17.
Here is every purchase I've ever made in TWD:NML -- http://m.imgur.com/a/eYghW
If you also feel that NG has abused your generosity and you won't be playing any more, post here, and hopefully together we can make them think twice before pulling such stunts in the future.
Finally, here is a link you can use to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau: https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started ... and when you do, be sure to make it clear that this was an unsavory money grab, citing details, and not routine rebalancing.
16
Comments
However, I do want to play devil's advocate here very quickly: Is it really in NG's best interest to screw players like that?
Given their past experiences with Rick's pistol, the spending freeze, etc., I'm sure NG realizes that there's a HUGE risk of losing customers in the future. It's hard to believe that NG would intentionally screw people over for one small payout at the risk of a LOT of future business.
For the record: I watched those level 30 challenge videos and didn't notice that there were no body shots. I had no idea until the post on the forums, and I'm a level 58 player that earns 400+ stars every week. It's really unlikely, but not impossible, that NG genuinely didn't know.
Again, I'm not saying that I agree 100% with NG on this particular issue. I do believe that NG did not maliciously sell this weapon with the intention of nerfing it. That being said, I think their stance on reimbursements is indefensible and shady.
Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSePrANMyf_S_YKJyfJodg
Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium
> I don't want to undermine people that were screwed by the Reckonin' purchase. It's a really crappy situation, and it sucks that NG is unwilling to directly process refunds.
>
> However, I do want to play devil's advocate here very quickly: Is it really in NG's best interest to screw players like that?
>
No, it's not in their best interest... i totally agree with you! That's why I'm so stunned they didn't offer any refunds. The fact that they didn't is just damning to them.... before they denied me, I didn't think much of it.
Here is what I suspect happened and why this is not a nefarious plan by NG but rather a poor attempt to recover from a mistake at multiple levels.
1) The no body shot ability of the weapon is only apparent when you fight walkers at a level +1 or +2 above your survivor level. It becomes 100% body shot at +5 I believe.
2) NG put out the rare version with their test crew never running missions with an RSL higher than their survivor level thus never realizing that the rare version had a bug. (This is mistake number 1)
3) NG analyzed data and observed that the rare version was being used way more often than anyone expected. In analyzing the data they failed to realize that the no body shot feature is why everyone was using it and not the novelty or fun factor. (This is mistake number 2; failing to see why everyone was using it)
4) NG upper management decided to put out a legendary version of the rare weapon they provided for Trade Goods (TG) because previous data showed that uses will only pay real money for legendary items. Still they had not noticed the no body shot feature of the weapon. (Mistake number 3; assuming they can make money off of a novelty item that appeared to be more accepted than they originally thought).
5) Someone/somewhere alerted NG staff to the fact that the weapon was in fact not doing body shots ever. On learning this, game developers had a meeting and decided this broke the game mechanics that were the reason for all the earlier nerfs. At this point it was decided to "fix the bug" and "nerf" all existing versions of the weapon. (Mistake number 4; changing the behavior not realizing that everyone who bought the legendary version had done so because of the no body shot feature displayed by the rare version in play for a month).
6) NG upper management decided not to issue refunds since the body shot was never an intended feature in the first place and was in fact a bug that NG failed to find in a timely manner.
Thus I blame NG for adequately testing their changes, i.e., testing at RSL above the testers survivor level and for trying to capitalize on an unexpected response of putting out a novelty item by failing to understand why people were using it in the first place. It is far easier for me to believe in incompetence rather than nefarious intent.
Just my 2 cents for what is worth.
> I find it fascinating that so many people are so inclined to believe that NG set out from the beginning to deceive their customers and purposefully sell an upgraded legendary version of a weapon that had been in game as a rare item for over a month.
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> Here is what I suspect happened and why this is not a nefarious plan by NG but rather a poor attempt to recover from a mistake at multiple levels.
>
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All very fair points, and I do see the logical progression there I was not aware of... but for them to turn around and blame the players instead of themselves is asinine, and has already proven to be a very bad PR decision. Also, there's no excuse for such a programming failure in the first place, not when it resulted in them getting a ton of free $$$.
Not really. Take a look around. Sure there are several of us 'old' players from last summer when NG really went on a Sell/Nerf craze, but there are PLENTY of new marks just starting up that can't help themselves from buying overpriced items that will lose functionality as soon as NG has harvested enough profit for the item. Just. Stop. There. They knew. This is once again a concerted effort to defraud the customer. They sell an item, then literally hours after the sale....they nerf it. Only this time they got smart and blamed it on a 'bug'. As if throwing a Molotov cocktail would literally result in a 'reduced bodyshot'. Whatever. Next time they are going to sell an assault rifle, then the next day nerf it saying it was actually just loaded with blanks and it's really just a 500 gold club. I've got a bridge to sell you then....
> @Goshinki Your receipt link shows you're an Apple/iOS platform user. Did Apple somehow refuse you the refund request?
I have not tried yet but that's irrelevant. They shouldn't be passing the buck into the platforms that have no idea of the situation, and I shouldn't have to plead my case to them when this situation is so plainly wrong on its face.
Oh well. C'est la apocalypse.
This is not a one-off, an accident, or a mistake. At this point, based on past history and continued behavior, it is now the NG business model.
Buy anything in the store at your own risk.
Can you imagine if an auto dealer tried the same tactic? You buy the car, drive it home and park it in the driveway. Next day wake up, with a note attached to the windshield. "Sorry, after purchase we determined that your vehicle was imbalanced. We've removed 2 wheels, and reduced the engine size by 50%. Cheers, and there are no refunds!"
How long do you suspect that could go on? Not long, but because NG operates with digital goods it's A-OK...
http://imgur.com/a/rQoUa
The insincerity of this canned response is enough to retch.... I love how if you assumed it was a bug, you're an "astute player", but if you didn't assume that, you're essentially being called a MORON.
I've adopted the hakuna matata attitude now I've decided to never spend on this game again and I'll continue to play it and ignore all the bad things until I can't no longer
Wow. Dates back to 1878 at least.
I have seen an asshole manager in a CVS win an argument with a customer who wanted to return a ten dollar electric toothbrush. I listened to everything the customer was saying. He was regretfull, honest, descriptive of his case and yet the asshole manager kept quoting store policy and rules about his receipt's validity. The manager won. But did the company win? No. over ten bucks.
We lost a player in our guild over this because of no refund. I thought, wow, he is a guy who spends money, I would rather quietly refund him to keep him spending. I saw @Teecezy posts and although I feel for TEECEEZY in his position, his position is wrong, its just not the right thing to do for business. Sometimes the halls get narrow at the top from success.
That boss can't and won't see the big picture. While I'm at it, the first chump asshole I would sit down if not FIRE is the munch bag that came up with the slogan "January Sales".
All of your die hard players see you as money grubbing and we get to see that shit header "January Sales" every day.
Those of you at NG who read my post, give that chump a clue. Hows about "Bargain Bundles" or Bundle Bonus Offer".
That clueless butt hole probably has limited life experience or business experience or both. I hope he reads this and gets a friendly check slap in the cheek from his subordinates.
There's no way they deliberately sold this weapon with the intention of nerfing it. The fallout from it is too huge and easily foreseeable and there's no way they would have done that on purpose.
I'm sure the reason NG is not attempting to do a blanket refund for everyone directly is because the vast majority didn't even know about the bodyshots issue until they announced it as a bug. And I'm not so sure they even have the ability to do individual refunds. There is a very vocal minority that knew about the bodyshots and are up in arms about it and I'm sure there are also quite a few just jumping on the bandwagon in hopes of getting something free out of it. Not everyone deserves a refund. If you really did buy it only because of the bodyshots then go ahead and contact Apple or Google to get a refund like @Shteevie has already said here:
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/170488/#Comment_170488
I have never seen, sooooo many Bundles at one time ( to generate money )...
I also read thru the " communication posts " from @Teeceezy, where at first it sounded that refunds were possible... Then the " rug was pulled out from his statement "
The NextGames Company has problems... ( they bring their problems upon themselves... )
@Teeceezy is just a messenger... ( yup... He got smacked down, by others... Crummy for him... )
Any guess who might " now " be on my list, ( in 2017 )
Like I said, it really doesn't matter if it was on purpose or not, because that's exactly how it appears. They made a ton of money doing it, and that's all the motivation they needed. I frankly don't think they care about the backlash, and that's exactly why we all need to STOP PLAYING, to make them rethink that.