Why raise training cost by 40% ?

2

Comments

  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    edited March 2017
    Did the training cost from 20 to 21 go up again overnight? Yesterday it was 1.7 million and today it is 1.97 million. Is this intended? @Shteevie @Teeceezy
    AllurieBuckzzstoneheartT_12
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    Screenshots @Ifyourforgive ?? PLEASE don't raise the cost! Come on, cut us some freaking slack!
    IfyourforgiveT_12
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    edited March 2017
    @General_Quatre I tried but my phone will not cooperate. Nevermind there we go.
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    I hope this was unintended. It is not just this survivor. It is all my level 20s. If this is intended I'm glad I got my A-team up to 21 yesterday.
    T_12
  • KnightmareKnightmare Member Posts: 13
    I believe it was unintended as it wasn't in the notes. I think it happened with the rest of the bugs and they left it alone, one less thing to have to fix.
    T_12
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    @Knightmare The update notes rarely reflect all the changes. Seems it is always up to the players to figure out everything that was "balanced" and "fixed"
    lunaranT_12
  • bigbeanobigbeano Member Posts: 602
    I am just gonna upgrade gear and camp for now,really disappointed in the way this topic has been treated,poor communication I guess...
    T_12
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    Yeah, it sucks. I have no gear yet to upgrade, was planning on doing survivors first while I was in the process of getting good gear. Plus it'll raise my Scavenge RSL once I have level 21 survivors, making them more lucrative. I don't play high enough level challenges for the bump is RSL to negatively impact me. I want to start upgrading Monday so I can do the Episode mission without bumping the RSL until the final week, by which point I'll have 6-8 21 survivors who can handle the RSL 23 final episode challenge.

    I'm gonna gold-rush my farms, Council, and TG this weekend so I can at least start upgrading one survivor during the 1-minute-gas event, thus recouping more losses and making the XP-upgrade-cost hurt SLIGHTLY less...still gonna be rough, not to mention all the XP grinding to level up all new gear. Oy.
    Ifyourforgivelunaran
  • NeoTheOneNeoTheOne Member Posts: 83
    @MasterX
    zbot always looking but never seeing. For him, it is always beautiful, even if for everyone, it obviously is not and, he doesn't fail to tell.
  • AllurieAllurie Member Posts: 56
    @Poppy I think we all expected leveling up from 20-21 to be costly. I don't think we expected to cost to change overnight...esp after video stating cost at 1.7
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    I didn't have a huge problem with the original 1.7 million cost to upgrade. I thought it was high but it was what it was. I just want to know why there was an overnight increase and if that increase was intentional. I tried to hold off training another survivor until we got an answer but my xp filled up so I had to go ahead anyway. It would be nice to get an official answer on this.
    AllurieT_12
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    Yes. Hopefully after the weekend...
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    BUMP
    IfyourforgivebigbeanoT_12
  • bigbeanobigbeano Member Posts: 602
    @ Teeceezy and @ Shteevie tagged in this thread days ago and still cricket sounds!
    lunaranT_12
  • quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
    edited March 2017
    @bigbeano

    @Shteevie already answered about the costs. Intentional change from switching away from the old rarity based cost tables that were left over from when survivors had a hard level cap.

    http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/200539/#Comment_200539
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    edited March 2017
    @quitJOSHin I believe that answer was when the cost was 1.7 million to upgrade to 21 and players wanted to know why such a drastic increase. We are now wondering why overnight it jumped from 1.7 to 1.97 with no notice. This was well after the update. I mostly just want confirmation that this was intentional.
    T_12
  • quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
    edited March 2017
    @Ifyourforgive Oh ok. I didn't rush to council lvl 20 so I wouldn't have noticed that change.
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    > @Ifyourforgive said:
    > @quitJOSHin I believe that answer was when the cost was 1.7 million to upgrade to 21 and players wanted to know why such a drastic increase. We are now wondering why overnight it jumped from 1.7 to 1.97 with no notice. This was well after the update. I mostly just want confirmation that this was intentional.

    By "well after the update," I take it you mean "very shortly after the update," you know, since it has only been one week aka seven days since the update went live.
  • IfyourforgiveIfyourforgive Member Posts: 59
    @mabiki By that I meant it wasn't when the update went live the first time or the 2nd time or in the hours when a possible 3rd maintenance would be needed.
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    The costs that are in the game now are the ones that are supposed to be there.

    The change that happened a few days ago and after the maintenance was lifted replaced work-in-progress data that was still in the game unintentionally. The old data had lower costs set too high for the new players, and some other issues involving the relationship between the training costs and the max XP that the player can store at the time.

    We believe that a level increase that players would realize immediately would have little effect on the play of the game as a whole. Players didn't reach levels 16+ overnight, and so while I understand the desire to get your team up to max level ASAP, we're hoping that players will upgrade their buildings, play some missions, and upgrade their teams over time. Some will spend to rush training or building upgrades, but we know that not everyone will do so, and we didn't build this content such that we would expect everyone to do so.

    It is unfortunate that the maintenance was so long, and that some of the changes made it harder for returning players to find their accounts afterwards. Hopefully everyone got a piece of the 1-minute gas and jackpot events, and all that extra XP and those extra supplies make the first few upgrades easier to achieve.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    [Deleted User]T_12
  • yoyosyoyos Member Posts: 73
    Its so simple to read the git repository and write changes to a single thread, but not for NG it seems
    Ranked Guild Amazons, check out for free rooms :)
    [Deleted User]
  • ProkktorProkktor Member Posts: 8
    Shteevie said:

    ...replaced work-in-progress data that was still in the game unintentionally. The old data had lower costs set too high for the new players...

    We believe that a level increase that players would realize immediately would have little effect on the play of the game as a whole. Players didn't reach levels 16+ overnight...

    What? Sorry I am no native english speaker but that does not make the least bit of sense either grammatically or otherwise...

    So you claim the old upgrade cost where some kind of test data that should not have been in the game, this caused lower costs which in turn where to high for new players... so you reacted by raising the costs across the board... Erm sorry I dont get it...

    Then you say the new level 21 shoud make us understand that leveling to 16 should now take much longer because it should not happen overnight... WHAT?
    Every online game I know of that inceased max level actually lowered the cost to reach the former max level... You have a higher max level and therefore higher cost to reach it already... that is no reason to raise costs even further...

    This is like deducting most accidents happen while surpassing the speed limit, so the answer is raising the speed limit... sounds like an explanation but if you think about it it absolutely is not!



    TheLostOnesT_12
  • stoneheartstoneheart Member Posts: 62
    Literally none if this makes any sense. The new training costs are permanent because they replace the old (cheaper) work-in-progres training costs? So ya'll are just making it up as you go along. Next update the goal posts will be moved in some other way. Hardly an incentive to those who have spent money on this game in the past, only for the powers that be to shift things around so the thing they thought they were buying into is now similiar but different in some pretty fundamental ways. I think the word I am looking for to describe this is SNEEKY.

    Honesty goes a long way in business. As a consumer,I will now think twice before giving any more money to a game that I now suspect will change fundamentally in some way in the future. Whether it's training costs or nerfing character traits.
    BttlOpenerstick_ninja
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    edited March 2017
    Data for systems like these is often built using a mathematical formula, such as the kind that form a curve when you graph them out. Considerations for details like available reward types, average engagement, maximum resource storage, and bonus rewards events are taken into account, and then each piece of data is rounded to make the presentation better for the player.

    The work-in-progress data used a formula that didn't account for some of these factors, and was unsuitable in more ways than any one player would see. And so it needed to be changed. As it stands now, some values in the table have decreased when compared to 2.4. I understand that every player is most concerned with their own particular player state, and so that is why it is important for me to let everyone know that these values are what was intended originally. Therefore, we don't expect to need to revisit them going forward.

    This is the most honest answer there could be, and so I hope you can accept it for what it is. Not "corporate speak" or some marketing spin, but the actual description of the situation.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    stoneheartFragzieT_12
  • stoneheartstoneheart Member Posts: 62
    edited March 2017
    "That is why it is important for me to let everyone know that these values (higher training costs) are what was intended ORIGIONALLY. Therefore, we don't expect the neeed to revisit them going forward".

    If you intended these higher training costs from that start, why only just introduce them NOW? It. Literally. Makes. No. Sense. Your explanation is mathematical? LOLz.

    It just reads like "we are right and we drew a graph and we won't be pursuance other wise, so just put up or shut up. Well I'm sorry. You have seen the last of any money I am going to spend on this game. I can see myself deleting it in the near future too, just for the sheer arrogance of the game developers to treat its consumers like idiots.
    stick_ninjaT_12
  • ProkktorProkktor Member Posts: 8
    @Shteevie
    Ok I understand, but you should have written it plainly like:

    "Ok with things like the new Challenges and the Season X Missions players progress their Characters to fast, so we chose to bring it in line with other things like building upgrades and raised the cost, sorry but it was necessary."

    Everyone would at least understand what you mean...

    And sentences like "The reasons are mathematical" are more of an insult than anything else. Most people will read "The reasons are so complex that you are way to dumb to ever comprehend, so be thankful I dont stress your brain with so much complex stuff!"

    No, no one is thankful everyone just sees you dancing around the hot potato.


    And finally:

    I respectfully disagree, the game was progressing slowly as it was and I barely had time/resources to upgrade any equipment along with my characters.
    So making it even slower does not really motivate me any further, I also stopped investing money a while ago since in the first weeks investing 10$ really made a difference, now its barely noticeable...
    My girlfriend even stopped the game altogether after loosing all her freshly bought coins by accidentally hitting the screen while sneezing. (In the trade menu she bought something totally worthless for millions of food cans which she didnt have so she lost all her coins...)

    Maybe you should check your mathematical formulas for flaws again, and then address some problems that actually matter... (for example how much nothing you can buy for tons of coins by once hitting the center of the screen accidentally...)
    T_12
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    @stoneheart
    Sorry to hear that you are upset. I hope you can understand, however, that making sure that the changes we designed and planned for are actually added to the game is an important part of making the game as good as it can be for our players will enjoy. Your stance claiming that this is somehow a poor practice would seem to indicate that you would prefer that we didn't fix bugs, adjust rewards or gas costs, or make any of the other kinds of increases that have gone into the game since launch. I'm sure that you would find a difference in opinion from your fellow players.

    @Prokktor
    The explanation about how the game data is generated was meant to illustrate that there is a process to explain how the numbers were created, in refutation to the suggestion that we made the changes arbitrarily or nonsensically. We hold a strict policy to not release these formulae to the public; they are a matter of special confidentiality, like all of our code and other game development work product is. Your unrelated issue about accidental resource spend is one that would best be reported to Support.

    I never intend to insult players or to make them feel stupid. People ask for the reasons why changes were made, and so I provide them. If you were determined to dislike the changes no matter what the answer was, I would wonder at the motivation of asking the question in the first place?
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
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