Reduced guild rewards

quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
"Personal and Guild Rewards have been adjusted to allow players to shoot for even higher star totals."

Did anyone read that and get out of it that they were reducing the guild rewards? I didn't. But looks like we're gonna get less radios now. Oh and I missed the first few reward amounts before I noticed what was happening. I know they were TG rewards under 500 each though.

2.5

60 = 400 TG
180 = 400 TG
600 = 450 TG
1200 = 5 Radios
1800 = 500 TG
2400 = 550 TG
3200 = 5 Radios
4000 = 600 TG
4800 = 700 TG
5600 = 10 Radios
6800 = 800 TG
8000 = 1000 TG
9200 = 10 Radios
10400 = 1000 TG
11800 = 1000 TG
13400 = 10 Radios
15000 = 1000 TG
16600 = 1000 TG
18200 = 10 Radios


2.4 except first week

60 = 400 TG
180 = 400 TG
600 = 5 Radios
1200 = 450 TG
1800 = 5 Radios
2400 = 450 TG
3200 = 5 Radios
4000 = 600 TG
4800 = 5 Radios
5600 = 600 TG
6800 = 10 Radios
8000 = 1000 TG
9200 = 1000 TG
10400 = 10 Radios
11800 = 1000 TG
13400 = 1000 TG
15000 = 10 Radios
16600 = 1000 TG
18200 = 1000 TG
19800 = 10 Radios
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Comments

  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,712
    Wtf. Bump so this stays on the front page.
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  • IRONDeeIRONDee Member Posts: 469
    @shteevie Is this as intended?

    thought something was amiss also. I definitely thought that they would make the tiers closer together, although reading it again I suppose "allowing us" to shoot for higher might be "requiring us to get higher" to get the rewards we got used to.
    I'm not addicted, I just have nothing better to do.
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    RedEye52
  • GindyGindy Member Posts: 703
    edited March 2017
    Technically speaking... with the 2.5 radio tier counts (I didn't​ math TG). Both sets equally get a player to 40 phones at 13400 stars. Just a different rhythm of delivery

    Edit: (my left contact is fuzzy and I'm on my phone so please correct my math up to 13400 stars if I'm wrong)... The "new" TG adds up to 6150 (excluding the first two tiers not included in post) and the "old" was only 6100...

    I have some ocean side property in Arizona if anyone is interested...
    DoTak
  • jeffstasykjeffstasyk Member Posts: 162
    13400 is pretty damn high...take a number like 8000 and it was 30 radios before and now it's 20 radios...
    Zeena
  • GindyGindy Member Posts: 703
    @jeffstasyk and at 4k you're getting 5 fewer radios but more TGs.

    Math the math if you're going to math, but don't think other mathers won't poke holes, because that's what keeps us honest. What this post is lacking is clearly pointing out where the disconnect lies. There are losses but there are also gains depending on the tier you analyze.

    My response was to only show that the OP laid out data which was incomplete and didn't have substance behind the argument.
    quitJOSHin
  • VudnikVudnik Member Posts: 307
    As always, "More, great!" = less.
    I stopped being surprised a great many months ago.
    Oh, and by the way, thanks for that ridiculous "rare" weapon we all voted for.
    Do none of you at NG go to bed at night feeling even slightly guilty about the perpetual BS you sling at your (ever dwindling) customer base? Do none of you get even the merest of incklings that you are the masters of your own demise?

    Your customers are tired of having their assets nerfed while you amp up your opposing forces. Increased stars? We're seeing less all the time. This isn't in the name of delivering us a competitive challenge, it's all about delivering less rewards so we will pay more,

    It's more than obvious who comes first here... The bug-ridden update provided a stun for spikey and a wimpy raider health, alongside a nerfing of our hunters' power. I see you made sure the first two were addressed before you all went home for the weekend. The last one, the one that WE all care about, will be addressed "soon."

    If I weren't so pissed off I'd be laughing my ass off!

    My six year old grandson just started playing the game. I told him not to bother. He will be my age before he gets any viable heroes up to fighting level, that is if the game is still up and running before he gets to grade four.
    ZeenaRedEye52
  • KillingLightKillingLight Member Posts: 118
    edited March 2017
    Lol yea, I noticed the lesser number of radios too..
    It's BS.
    And if they werre gonna reduce the radios, they should have at least the TG rewards but nope.

    And considering there is one less round to play, that's another 30 stars less that could make the difference.
    What are they smoking? Lol
  • quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
    edited March 2017
    @Gindy
    13,400 isn't really a fair comparison. You're comparing a tier that just received radios to one that hasn't received radios in 2 tiers.

    If you want to consider 13,400 then consider this: before we got the same number of radios at 10,400. How is that not substance behind the argument? That's 3000 extra stars you have to earn to get the same thing.
  • jeffstasykjeffstasyk Member Posts: 162
    > @Gindy said:
    > @jeffstasyk and at 4k you're getting 5 fewer radios but more TGs.
    >
    > Math the math if you're going to math, but don't think other mathers won't poke holes, because that's what keeps us honest. What this post is lacking is clearly pointing out where the disconnect lies. There are losses but there are also gains depending on the tier you analyze.
    >
    > My response was to only show that the OP laid out data which was incomplete and didn't have substance behind the argument.

    Ok so at 4000 ur getting 5 less radios but maybe like 500 more tg...or whatever the actual number is...but 1 radio is worth 600tg...so 5 less radios is equivalent to 3000 tg...so getting 500 more tg does not make up for less radios...

    And at 8000 like I said ur getting 10 less radios...which is not made up with an extra 6000 tg...not even close...and 13400 it's more of the same...

    So yea ur right...u can "math" any tier u want and they are all less valuable

    Not to mention that every guild lost 600 stars to start (by moving everyone up a level...about 30* per player...)...making all of these tiers that much harder to actually get to...
    General_QuatreRedEye52
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    We just hit 3200 per week, and that was a good goal to get us our 15 radios. Now we have to do the same work for 10 phones, and will likely never hit the 15 radios again. Is one gold call per WEEK with guilds really a game breaker, @Teeceezy ? Even with level 21 survivors/24 gear, it's the GAS cost that prohibits most people from getting to the tiers you now expect them to.
    RedEye52
  • GindyGindy Member Posts: 703
    You can't just throw numbers out there, @quitJOSHin, to a number crunching community if you don't think it's going to be analyzed to all hell... btw, thanks for the disagree ;)

    Let's assume the first three tiers follow suit (in orange) -- I would agree there's a discrepancy in rewards from 1800 - 4800 stars. but is it really that much? From there on out it's pretty close. We argued for phones in challenges, a lot of hullabaloo was brought up about the gap between the star gap rewards 3060/5280/10000+,and NG obliged. A month ago we saw a HUGE increase when it went from 1/2/3 to 5/10. Still, today, we're complaining that it's still not enough.

    Understood if you're a 1800 - 4800 team, you're missing out on phones. Yep. No doubt. But it makes you "shoot for even higher star totals" If you have numbers up from 16k+ I'll be happy to add to my sheet and share with the forum to help proove the trend/discrepancy.

    We're getting more than we ever did and still complaining about it. As @JayZ said, "be more like @TransmuteJun". Bring those complaints with constructive suggestions. We've seen the aftermath of just compaining. There are people like @DLich, @OneLessTitan, and many others that have put countless hours into statistical analysis -- we're all tired but this shit gets me (us?) fired up.

    For higher tiers (which not included in the numbers for this analysis) we're not doing "any worse" than we were before...




    DLichSCBMAVerbaub
  • IRONDeeIRONDee Member Posts: 469
    edited March 2017
    We are a full guild that gets 8000 a challenge. We've gone from 3900 to 5425 TG and down from 30 to 20 phones. I can usually buy 5 phones for 3000 TG so I'm down 7.5 phones a challenge. But I'm not going to piss and moan because Murphy's law says they'll change it to something I like even less.
    I'm not addicted, I just have nothing better to do.
    Founder and benevolent dictator of IRONPHX
    Alt Elder in Grumpy Old Gits

    SCBMAstick_ninjaRedEye52
  • quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
    @Gindy
    You sure seem hung up on the TG but bulk of the value in the rewards is in the phones. And as your own spreadsheet shows 2.4 was almost always ahead in phones except for a handful of tiers where 2.5 catches up right before 2.4 would have gotten more phones. Is the extra TG that 2.5 gives enough to buy the missing phones? No. Therefore overall the reward value was generally better last week than it is this week.
    JadenRedEye52
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    I like math and haven't fully read through this whole thread which I will do tomorrow (thanks @Gindy for the tag) but I'll add this one bit.

    Since 2.5 has one less round; if a guild of 20 all started at RSL 14 in 2.4 they're now starting at RSL 15 in 2.5 and thus each is losing 32 stars multiplied by 20 that's 640 stars (one whole reward tier)

    I wanna say our old goal was 10,400 cause it was a radio goal. We got 40 at that point I think. Now we'd need to get to 13,400 to get the same amount of radios. That's my gripe but eh it is what it is I guess.

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  • 8N88N8 Member Posts: 164
    Bump
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited March 2017
    Balancing
    • The Starting Difficulty for players in mid-to-high levels has been increased slightly. Players will be able to get into the meaty difficulty levels with one fewer "warm-up" round.
    • Personal and Guild Rewards have been adjusted to allow players to shoot for even higher star totals.

    Enemy Levels
    • Walkers of all levels have been slightly strengthened. The changes will be more noticeable at higher levels of difficulty.


    @Teeceezy @Shteevie
    Care to comment on the contradictory?
    bigbeano
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    There's no contradiction. Guild leaders came to us saying that the grind was driving their players away, and asking us to consider that the harder missions take more time to play. We wanted to make sure that the low- and mid-level players didn't miss out by having their amount of content reduced. So the specific changes that we settled on were 1 fewer starting round for mid-high to high-level players, and then 3 rounds instead of 4 for difficulties 26-29. There was an error in the logic for last week that set difficulties 28 and 29 to 1 round each, but that has been addressed.

    With the rewards, we know that level 21 survivors and level 24 equipment will let players get further, and the reduction of rounds means level 30 probably is within reach again. So we added additional personal and guild reward tiers so that those players would still have something to play for. Before 2.5, players had "capped out" the guild reward list, and we know they would keep pushing if we gave them something to push for.

    The balance changes for enemies and survivors favor the player in total. Yes, walkers are slightly harder, but human enemies are weaker again [though not as weak as they were before 2.2]. Melee classes have better damage at high levels and more HP all around, shooters got a big weapon buff, and the demand for top-quality armor for Bruisers is slightly less [since more of their total HP comes from the survivor and not the armor].

    I hope this explains the thought behind these changes in general. This level of detail is too "fine-grained" to be suitable for general release patch notes, which is why it was not spelled out to such length there.
    Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land
    Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
    MonsutaJaden
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    I am missing out. My survivors are level 20 and I am getting fewer stars than before. How is this not missing out?

    So some people came to you because a few missions more were too much for them and everyone else is now missing out because of that. Doesn't make sense to me.

    Additional levels at the top are fine, but why take away phones from players who can't get there (yet?) and make it harder for them to catch up? Don't you fear they might lose interest?

    Melee is still useless. Warrior charge attack is still weak and it's still ridiculous to not reliably kill a level 19 walker with fully equipped level 20 6star assaults during assault week... humans are still super-human...

    So yeah, not impressed...
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  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    @Shteevie I agree the grind is driving people away and I hate the grind. I find the changes in 2.4 only shifted the grind from low levels to higher levels and because higher levels take longer it actually made it more of a grind despite what your player testers told you. Nothing in 2.5 was done to help the grind. The things listed in your post above do nothing to help the grind.

    If NG doesn't fix the grind and how long it takes do do some individual maps and in general the length it takes to complete higher round NG will lose more and more customers. Some maps take 5minutes easy in higher rounds multiple that by 6 that's 30 minutes, 3 rounds to complete one level and that's 90 minutes just to go level to level?? Not fun or fresh or exciting or good for anyone.

    Increasing the health and damage of walkers and adding armored and fatties at ultra high levels is not a fix for poor design. There are other ways to increase difficulty other than exponentially increasing walker strength every round until you can't pass it.


    The grind is going to grind your player base down to nothing.
    JadenSCBMA
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522
    I love how we are supposed to be happy that warriors got a buff... but they are still useless...

    The more I read these posts the more I'm convinced that NG either does not play this game or they stop playing at RSL -1... because yes, I agree warriors are pretty awesome at RSL -1...
    bigbeanoJadenSCBMA
  • General_QuatreGeneral_Quatre Member Posts: 990
    Just stated in another thread, but we're all (supposedly, although @Movado sees differently) going to keep starting at RSL 15 even once we hit level 21. I just got my first lvl21 survivor, so tomorrow I'll see if my RSL is still 15 or jumped to 16 in challenges. If that's the case, THEORETICALLY we'll be able to get the same number of stars. Although this will require all level 21s and level 24 gear, and will also depend on how the walker buff affects higher RSLs.
  • quitJOSHinquitJOSHin Member Posts: 134
    Here's what it looks like the new reward structure is. The first 6 I can confirm and the rest I filled in based on the pattern they set last week. If anything turns out to be different I'll edit it.

    I'm glad they adjusted it to make the Radio tiers a little easier to get.

    60 = 400 TG
    180 = 400 TG
    600 = 5 Radios
    1200 = 500 TG
    1800 = 550 TG
    2400 = 5 Radios
    3200 = 600 TG
    4000 = 700 TG
    4800 = 10 Radios
    5600 = 800 TG
    6800 = 1000 TG
    8000 = 10 Radios
    9200 = 1000 TG
    10400 = 1000 TG
    11800 = 10 Radios
    13400 = 1000 TG
    15000 = 1000 TG
    16600 = 10 Radios
    18200 = 1000 TG
    19800 = 1000 TG
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