April 2017 Balance Changes: Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    I saw a reduction from 6 to 5 on one of my accounts, no reduction on the other (was 4, is still 4).
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

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  • WarlordWarlord Member Posts: 165
    @General_Quatre Absolutely correct. The issue NG is facing is how to balance ranged and melee so both have value when in reality, the propensity is to always use range weapons as the object is always to kill the target before they get close enough to you to kill you. This constant buffing and tweaking values, IMO, is completely backwards.

    To offer some thoughts on changes and include a sense of realism to the fantasy world of TWD and NML along with why:

    1) Scouts should get an extra movement point then what they already have and high dodge. Have the walkers also ignore their movement as scouts are supposed to be stealthy. Don't tweak armor as scouts need to be quick. There job is not to attack but to scout.

    2) Warriors should get another movement point. The warriors are the silent killers of the melee group. Maybe a reduced reaction from walkers too along with a little higher dodge from not wearing as much armor as the others? Not a lot of armor as swinging swords through multiple walkers is tiresome work.

    3) Bruisers should have arcs on their weapons just like Warriors and their charge should be the same as Warriors. No harm here from having duplicate charge events as swinging a bat and swinging a machete is basically the same. Keep movement as it is as this class is the heavy hitters of the melee class.

    4) Melee classes should all have high crit chance potential irregardless of walker level as all three of these are doing their work up close and personal so the chance of missing is fairly low. You could slightly lower damage as the walker levels go up but you need to evaluate that against the walker health per level curve as it is to see if its even really needed.

    5) Assault and hunters. The weapons for these two (uncharged) should work exactly the same way and do the same damage and have same distance. The only technical differences between assault weapons and hunting weapons tend to be larger magazines and recoil handling. The ammo is even essentially the same. However, change the assault special ability from stun to gold arc. We are not firing LTL rounds here (shotguns do that - bean bag rounds) and rifle rounds don't "stun" targets. However, in a setting such as NML, ammo is scarce and going to full auto would be a last result type thing, therefore, arc as the charge ability would make more sense. Both of the classes also should not suffer as much damage reduction against "bulletproof" as shooters. They should suffer on accuracy at close range (within one or two spaces) vs long range purely from the point of swinging a long gun on target close up is more difficult than a pistol. Assaults and hunters should have movement reduced by one. Ammo is heavy and carrying lots of it will slow you down.

    6) Shooters. No more pistols shooting farther than assaults and hunters. More accurate than rifles close range. Also, not as good as rifles/assault against bulletproof.

    Why this take on "bulletproof". Well, just look at NIJ on what is bullet proof. Most bullet proof vests are only good against pistols as the round is much wider which allows the Kevlar to disperse the energy throughout the fabric. To get bullet proof against rifles, you need to add special ceramic plates. To illustrate this, the following image shows a 1/4" steel plate hit twice with a 5.56/.223 round and also hit multiple times with .40 cal round from an M&P 40 (the hole at the top of the disc was already there). The two holes are from the 5.56 and the .40 cal didn't even put a dent in it.

    I understand this is a game and not looking for real world effects, after all we get walkers flying thru the air on some of these maps, but a closer approximation of the capabilities of all 6 different survivor classes would be nice.

    Finally, get creative with the maps where some really encourage the use of specific classes.


    black_nines
  • HelioHelio Member Posts: 522

    @ the on topic discussion: I do think NG should look at how to make melee classes useful for end game play... having a class, like bruisers, be completely useless after a certain RSL level just isn't right.

    I would even take a "bonus" situation like "if you take 3 different melee classes on a mission, then bruisers can stun any level walker".

    @ the off topic discussion, I think the intent of how the word was used is what is important. I find it ridiculous that people suddenly start saying "don't use that word" irrelevant of the context. People need to grow up and realize the world is not full of unicorns and rainbows. People will use words you don't like, ignore them and move on.
    Captainslayerblack_nines
  • JadenJaden Member Posts: 3,067
    Well... words have power...

    I agree that you should always look at the context but don't think that one should (always) just walk away if people use inappropriate words (not talking about the r-word in particular).

    Sometimes it is better, yes. But sometimes it is okay for people to speak up.

    There can be too much political correctness... but too little thought for others as well. Middle grounds, folks... middle grounds.
    Leader of Morbid Sinners and Morbid Spirits

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    jimmorrison369
  • paintbeastpaintbeast Member Posts: 1,188
    So...how about that balance?
    InvaderantCaptainslayer
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    @meathead013 No I meant what I said which is the Recommended Survivor Level (RSL) on your scavenger missions which is going to be around 13 for your normal mission unless you have some survivors with pink stars. 5 gas for your scavenger missions isn't very good because my RSL is 22 on normal and my gas cost went from 6 to 5.
  • meathead013meathead013 Member Posts: 189
    Shut_Up said:

    @meathead013 No I meant what I said which is the Recommended Survivor Level (RSL) on your scavenger missions which is going to be around 13 for your normal mission unless you have some survivors with pink stars. 5 gas for your scavenger missions isn't very good because my RSL is 22 on normal and my gas cost went from 6 to 5.

    The normal scavenger missions don't specify recommended survival level, but the hard scavenger missions specify 15. So I assume that's what you meant.

    So I was looking forward to a decrease in the scavenger missions but I guess like I said I must be in some kind of middle ground or something where the calculation didn't give me any net change right now
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    Surprised there is so little discussion here...guess the debate on offensive language killed the thread.

    That, or the forum community is so happy with the balance changes no one can even find a reason to complain. Yeah, that must be it.
    TheLostOnesJaden
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,713
    @Mabiki Sorry - I might be distracting folks with the whole survivor/equipment progression discussion. I agreed with pretty much everything you said (as did many other people, based on their reactions to your post). My silence shouldn't be taken as indifference; rather, I felt like you said everything that needed to be said and I didn't have anything novel or valuable to contribute.

    I posted somewhere else that I wished the Wide Margin Bruiser weapon (or Morgan's Staff) was available as an epic item for high level FTP players in the TG shop. That alone, I think, would make Bruisers more enjoyable to play with. I agree that it would be great if Bruisers body-shotted higher level walkers/freemen at a lower rate than they currently do.
    Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild.
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    Mabiki
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    Thanks for the reply @JayZ

    I guess I'm just not used to the board being so quiet on these types of threads, nor the idea that my opinions sometimes represent a larger sample of the board. I seem to collect "disagrees" as a hobby when I'm not making jokes (not that I mind).

    JayZJaden
  • peta22peta22 Member Posts: 5
    Do anyone also feel that the dodge threat isent working like before the update? Before the update dodge works really well, but now you can be lucky if from 5 attacks one get dodged. So walkers get stronger assoult is now weaker and dodging a attack gets rare. I dont think that so much negative effects are good for the game.(sry for my english i hope you understand)
  • PigPig Member Posts: 1,870

    Words have different meanings based on context. An individuals hypersensitivity and propensity to be outraged should not trump my ability to use words in different context that would be entirely correct and proper if hypersensitive people didn't find offence to them.

    So, so true. So true. I especially like how you said that hypersensitivity shouldn't trump whatever that was that you said. Spot on.
    Bad Pig
    Bad to the bone!
    The Notorious P.I.G.
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