Who else thinks it was a mistake to upgrade survivors to 21?

I just spent 2 hours looking through the forums and did not really see my concern addressed, so I am writing to express some
fustration over the mechanics of the March 21st update (that allowed Council level of 20 and survivors to 21).


In short it seems to be a serious mistake for players to upgrade from level 20 to level 21.

From everything I have experienced, if a player does level their survivors there is no benefit gained but actually a detriment,
since all of the starting zombies levels increase by one or two.


Best example being Hard Scavage missions. The recommended level (i.e. starting zombie level) for me went from 23 to 25.
Previously body shots were the biggest hindrance for me before the update. So I was excited at being able to level up and make
the situation better. Instead it is now Worse, since the level gap between survivors and zombies increased.

Which is doubly annoying since now I need to run equipment scavenge missions for new items, but is harder since the zombies
gained two levels. And even after spending 100s of hours/dollars to improve the survivors and get new equipment, over all missions
will be harder then being level 20, since more body shots are occuring.

Seriously if I could revert my survivors to level 20, I would.
sougespuerp_heriangcheong85LadyAquilaPigConan1976
«1

Comments

  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,083
    It seems odd that hard scavenge missions increased from 23 to 25. Did you promote a survivor to two pink stars around the same time?
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  • KivanKivan Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2017
    Thank you for your insightful and informative reply. The link was especially useful.
    T_12
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 2,087
    > @JayZ said:
    > It seems odd that hard scavenge missions increased from 23 to 25. Did you promote a survivor to two pink stars around the same time?

    I would guess yes
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  • KivanKivan Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2017
    @JayZ
    Yes I did promote a survivor to two pink stars for the first time, around that same time.

    Also that is a wonderful post you did. Great information.
    JayZGuapoJaden
  • gespuergespuer Member Posts: 1,565
    edited April 2017
    Most of all I was angry about is less stars in challenges bc of higher starting RSL and later repeatable RSL (20 instead of 19 before). That gave me approx.150 stars less per challenge (what means less xp for kills and less everything by less rewards).
    Kill'em all & JustSurviveSomehow
    Member & founder of #nocarlclub
    Playin' since 15.01.2016

  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 978
    @gespuer If you don't do any better or got any further at all with level 21s, it costs you 32 stars for no level 14, then 38 (19x2) and 36 (3 starring through the 2 extra 19s). That's 106 stars if you didn't do any extra or any better at all. If you lost 150 there is something else involved.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    What guapo said it cost me stars big time and it feels like I've had something stolen from me.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,827
    edited April 2017
    Guapo said:

    @gespuer If you don't do any better or got any further at all with level 21s, it costs you 32 stars for no level 14, then 38 (19x2) and 36 (3 starring through the 2 extra 19s). That's 106 stars if you didn't do any extra or any better at all. If you lost 150 there is something else involved.

    The walkers got buffed. But this counts across the board.

    I get about 50 stars less because of this.
    Jaden
  • David_H79David_H79 Moderator Posts: 1,866
    I hit round about the same amount of stars.
    It's harder and more painful to go min one RSL higher, but it's possible to do it.
  • OneLessTitanOneLessTitan Member Posts: 1,272
    I think this is the only suggestion that has the potential to be implemented:
    http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/25395/demote-a-survivor-by-one-level-at-a-time

    The lower gear scaling is obviously a fact, but no one has any idea how much difference it actually makes since nobody with level 21 survivors has spent 4+ months grinding for base level 21 gear to get to the same point as they were at with Level 20 survivors. Since this is the first survivor/gear level update (for endgamers) since the challenge rework was implemented, many people didn't realize the implications of rushing to level up. I'm sure almost all of those people regret their decision.
    Pig
  • PoppyPoppy Member Posts: 1,146
    First the Op your search foo needs work it was covered extensively but yeah its a massive screw up as I and many others said it would be.

    NGs approach to develpment I have dubbed the Magpie Method, they go ohhhh shiney lets change this with out giving it proper thought.

    We then get oh dear its broke loads of other parts of the game as we never intended on the outset to have survivors above lvl 20 but what the heck we will just say were monitoring it that always works dosnt it.

    I was talking about this game to a friend who doesn't play games and when I told her the last update was supposed to increase certain attack and Hp values but some actually went down she replied with " how do they manage to dress themselves in the morning if they dont know up from down let alone turn a computer on to make a game"

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  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 978
    @jimmorrison369 50nis is a lot for that, but even then the assumption that you don't do any better whatsoever by not getting the body shots on 24, or that you can't get any further whatsoever with higher level (even nerfed) has to be true for even the first 106. My guess is it's closer to a 75 star reduction by upgrading. Which is still ridiculous and needs to be fixed yesterday.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 978
    Of course this could be merged with the countless threads about the exact issue.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
  • gespuergespuer Member Posts: 1,565
    Guapo said:

    @gespuer If you don't do any better or got any further at all with level 21s, it costs you 32 stars for no level 14, then 38 (19x2) and 36 (3 starring through the 2 extra 19s). That's 106 stars if you didn't do any extra or any better at all. If you lost 150 there is something else involved.

    BC of later repeatable you have to go further in RSL where it's harder to gaze up all 3* all the time. That's the reason for the bigger number of lost stars. B)
    Kill'em all & JustSurviveSomehow
    Member & founder of #nocarlclub
    Playin' since 15.01.2016

    jimmorrison369GrimGael
  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 291
    I too have noticed less stars. But not to the scale you are referring to. While I am missing out on the round at lvl14, and triple round at 19, I make up for it by being able to 3-star the rounds at 25 and push into the rounds of 26 with the same gear (lvl 20 leg upgraded to 23). Prior to the survivor increase, I would stall in the rounds of 25 without some kind of damage bonus. Al in all, I figure I am down about 20 stars per challenge, now getting 930-950. And truth be told I don't care. Stars are worthless to me, but what the stars get me in the form of rewards IS important to me. And I get on average one less challenge reward / deluxe challenge reward crate now. That sucks.
    Guapovshield50
  • GuapoGuapo Member Posts: 978
    @JayZ that's exactly my point. The 106 is the difference if you do absolutely no better than a level 20. All the number guessing is random (guessing) beyond that. And if you are over 100 stars lost your gear is probably to blame, not the update.
    In a way, all of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us.
    JayZggbats
  • vshield50vshield50 Member Posts: 1,721
    > @jbuoy said:
    > I too have noticed less stars. But not to the scale you are referring to. While I am missing out on the round at lvl14, and triple round at 19, I make up for it by being able to 3-star the rounds at 25 and push into the rounds of 26 with the same gear (lvl 20 leg upgraded to 23). Prior to the survivor increase, I would stall in the rounds of 25 without some kind of damage bonus. Al in all, I figure I am down about 20 stars per challenge, now getting 930-950. And truth be told I don't care. Stars are worthless to me, but what the stars get me in the form of rewards IS important to me. And I get on average one less challenge reward / deluxe challenge reward crate now. That sucks.

    I agree with most everything written here by @jbuoy minus the comment on caring about stars. I care to the degree that it helps my guild (I suppose @Jbuoy feels the same if he is in a guild). I could have managed it better myself by not upgrading quickly but it balances even because I can get to higher rounds.

    There seems to be an optimal lvl to increase stars and I noticed my lead over others has decreased based on the fact that the levels get MUCH harder at lvl 26 in my opinion. Means we have to push a bit harder rather than having 3 rounds at level 19.
    Guapo
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,083
    @gcheong85 care to share why you disagree? I don't think I wrote anything particularly controversial or wrong, but I'm interested in hearing what you didn't agree with.
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  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 291
    edited April 2017
    @JayZ - no offence taken, and I agree with your points. The damage bonus events have helped, but I stop when the body shots outnumber the normal/crit hits and I can not reliably kill walker spawns. The events don't help with body shot reduction, so while they allow for more reliable kills to a certain point they do not help nearly as much once at RSL +4/5. However, they have allowed for heavier damage and mission completion with more 3-star results, so there is an adder due to the events.

    I was only trying to make the point that quantifying it as "106 lost stars" is not entirely accurate (nor is my previously stated 20 due to other factors). At the 2.5 release whether lvl 20 or 21 toons, I, like many others were to start at round 15 regardless. So in reality, moving from 20 to 21 cost only the 2 rounds at 19. But now with lvl 21 toons, body shot percentage calculations are pushed out a level so I can go further. For my playing style, the rapid increase in body shot frequency is the single greatest road block to advancing as it takes too many hits to kill

    I kinda wish I could go back, but as it happened I upgraded an assault to level 21 get the epic flamethrower at 21 and finished the season 7 missions in the same week (which provided me with a level 21 Ezekiel). So I had 2 lvl 21 toons, and there was no going back.

    @vshield50 - you are correct in your assumption on the stars as they relate to my guild. But my guild essentially feels as I do - we do not chase stars for leaderboards and such, we only collect stars for the rewards they provide
    JayZvshield50
  • Tapatio75Tapatio75 Member Posts: 636
    You cant spend hundred and a couple of hours and expect good results

    You have to spend thousands and play 24/7
    Gladi
  • CaptainslayerCaptainslayer Member Posts: 1,393
    I still have lvl 20 survivors and generally have an easier time getting to 1k stars than my guild mates that have lvl 21 survivors and most aren't able to get to 1k even the better players in my guild, (that may change when they lvl gear).
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  • Annette578Annette578 Member Posts: 482
    @Captainslayer
    I agree 100% !
    vshield50
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    If you leave out the change in how weapon and armor values scale differently with the increase from 20 to 21 (which is a related but separate issue), the loss of stars due to the increase in difficulty is the same progression curve faced by every player in the game when they level survivors.

    It increases the base walker level, so it's gonna be harder until you have a good stable of max level survivors and max level gear. This is not unique to the 2.5 update, except for the fact many players have been maxed so long they aren't used to dealing with the consequences of raising another level.

    I don't get NG's decision to reduce the way gear scales, but even if they changed it, I don't think it would solve the 'fewer stars' issue that seems to be the main concern. The only thing that can solve that is levelling survivors and gear and investing time and XP, ie playing the game aka grinding,
    David_H79
  • Conan1976Conan1976 Member Posts: 758
    All I know is NG did not make the right choices on this matter.

    Advancing to lvl 21, investing €, investing hundreds of millions of XP, not even talking about the amount of invested time brings you NOTHING. Well, yes it does, it brings you less challenge stars.

    Simply let lvl 21 start, and repeat the challenge the same way player's with lvl 20. The argument "you guys wanted to play less hours a week in the challenge" is not a valid one as the first levels of the challenge simply are not time consuming. When we reach RSL 24/25 the challenge becomes more difficult and time consuming.

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  • gcheong85gcheong85 Member Posts: 149
    @JayZ i disagree on point no.1 on the importance for warrior damage boost as i find warrior's damage boost is useful against armoured walkers where range shooters or hunters will have tonnes of body shots. As for bruisers, i do agree it is completely useless damage boost.
    In addition to point no.2, i disagree on the challenge for this week is easier due to armoured walkers, countless walkers and freemen as assault would definitely have frequent body shots since its an assault week. I do find last week's challenge much easier compared to this week.
    Just an opinion of mine.
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