2.6 Stars and what to expect

DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
So Mr. Data here left his thumb drive at home with the original spreadsheet so I had to re-do the formula tables (not a big deal) but it set me back about 20 minutes

As @Bill_ZRT made a spreadsheet there are many variations regarding what starting RSL you will begin on if you have let's say 2 lvl 22's and 1 lvl 20 but for ease of information the spreadsheet lists I have created assumes a gradual progression (2 lvl 19's; 2 lvl 20's; 2 lvl 21's; 2 lvl 22's). Ultimately what's causing the RSL to change is "average" of your 3 best survivors. This is nothing new and very widely known amongst forum members

I have updated the 2 spreadsheets that show progression and what to expect after each round of stars earned. A new one that I updated is "Star count going into Survivors RSL". What this one does is show how many stars you should expect to have (assuming perfect rounds) going into the challenge facing a RSL that's equal or greater than your own survivor levels.

For example once you hit RSL 19 and your survivors are lvl 19 (or at least 2 of them aren't 20) then you'll expect to start 19.1 with 273 stars. Similarly if your survivors are lvl 22 (or at least 2 of them are) then you'll expect to start 22.1 with 330 stars.

These charts also assume 3 rounds each after the "warm up's" As we delve higher into RSL such as 29 and 30 and beyond I'm not sure if it's still 3 rounds but for the purpose of these spreadsheets I am assuming they are.









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Comments

  • MovadoMovado Member Posts: 863
    Thanks @DLich

    (Fyi: I get quadruple-rounds starting at rsl 30)
    MystiqueDLichTheLostOnesromeo
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Regarding the "Star count going into RSL" spreadsheet don't be fooled by the higher stars comparing Survivors lvl 22 & lvl 21; The reason it appears to be more is that they both start at RSL 15 so RSL 22 still starts at RSL 15; In the previous examples -

    2 lvl 19's starts at RSL 13 and triples at 18
    2 lvl 20's starts at RSL 14 and triples at 19
    2 lvl 21's starts at RSL 15 and triples at 20

    but

    2 lvl 22's starts at RSL 15 and triples at 21

    So players with at least 2 lvl 22 survivors are still getting RSL 15 = 18 stars + 15 round stars = 33 stars instead of being bumped to RSL 16 start like in the previous example. Since walker health doesn't increase linear many players are aware that a player with lvl 19 survivors facing +4 RSL (23) will have a less difficult time than a player with lvl 22 survivors facing +4 RSL (26).

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  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421
    @DLich It should also be noted that if the formulas don't change, that the next council/training ground/workshop upgrade will bring a more significant issue as having 1 lvl 23 survivor along with 2 lvl 22 survivors raises the starting RSL to 16. With 3+ lvl 23 survivors, the repeat RSL also increases to level 22.

    Kind of looks like the sweet spot with that future update might be lvl 23x1, lvl 21x2 since that starts you at level 15 and repeats at level 20. Of course, that's not possible for people who already have 2 level 22 survivors.
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  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    Unreal.... what a mess!
    vshield50DLichpaintbeast
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited July 2017
    @Bill_ZRT Just so I understand how starting RSL and triple rounds are determined it's.

    Starting RSL = (sum of best 3 survivors * .7) divided by 3
    example - (23+22+22) = 67*.7 = 46.9 divided by 3 = 15.63 rounded to 16

    Triple rounds starting = (sum of best 3 survivors divided by 3) - 1
    example - (23+22+22) = 67 divided by 3 = 22.33 rounded to 22 minus 1 = 21* (see note)

    *note edit I believe I seen in your spreadsheet that triple rounds starting ignores the remainder & if it's 22.01 through 22.99 it's all 22. Is that correct?

    Is that a correct assessment?

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  • WarlordWarlord Member Posts: 165
    It's the star rewards for completing the round which creates the mess and will only get worse as it goes higher. With that increasing amount, you can't have a uniform, or mostly inform, progression to 1000 stars across all RSL starting levels.

    This is the rare time that getting better rewards (more stars) for completing higher levels actually hurts us.

    The only real way to get out of the mess, or not make it as bad, is uniform rewards in stars irregardless of level completed. Then match the crate rewards to truly reflective of the RSL currently on when opened.

    Combine those with changing RSL start to avg of survivors and the penalty for upgrading is mostly gone and everyone, no matter what level, is mostly on a level playing field.

    It won't happen though, to much common sense.
    DLichromeoCoon
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    Warlord said:



    The only real way to get out of the mess, or not make it as bad, is uniform rewards in stars irregardless of level completed.



    I get your point though and agree. It's only going to get worse from here. So much strategy needed for a point, click, shoot mobile app game.

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  • Kick_assKick_ass Member Posts: 513
    @DLich thank u. Great post. Can I share on my fb group?
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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    I took the data from @Bill_ZRT spreadsheet and projected what to expect based on the formula for when lvl 24 survivors start coming (2 council upgrades away from now)



    3 22's starts at 15 and triples at 21

    Once you increase 1 survivor to lvl 23 it will increase the starting RSL to 16 and thus a loss of 33 stars. Fortunately upgrading a 2nd survivor to lvl 23 won't change anything. Upgrading a 3rd survivor to lvl 23 it will increase the triple round starting to 22 (a loss of 78 stars)

    3 22's = base [start 15 triple 21]

    2 22's & 1 23's = loss of 33 stars [start 16 triple 21]

    1 22's & 2 23's = loss of 0 stars [start 16 triple 21]

    3 23's = loss of 78 stars (111 total compared to 3 22's) [start 16 triple 22]

    2 23's & 1 24's = loss of 0 stars [start 16 triple 22]

    1 23's & 2 24's = loss of 34 stars (145 total compared to 3 22's) [start 17 triple 22]

    3 24's = loss of 80 stars (225 total compared to 3 22's) [start 17 triple 23]

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  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421
    @DLich - yes, those assumptions are correct.

    I'm not sure what the calculation is for 4x RSL repeats though. I think those might start at level 30, but I'm not a good enough player to experience that myself. :smile:
    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
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  • NCDawgFanNCDawgFan Member Posts: 2,070
    I propose that @DLich change his forum name to DrData. Thanks for the great info @DLich !
    DLichWeekOnejavajnkie
  • javajnkiejavajnkie Member Posts: 553
    edited July 2017
    Every week I relive the regret of upgrading three 21s (by accidentally unlocking Eugene!).
    This confirms my decision to upgrade only two survivors to lvl 22 and to keep any new heroes in "hero jail" rather than unlock them. I can live without carl, the governor, Gabe, and Merle. It's just not worth the subsequent loss of stars to me.
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  • JackBauerJackBauer Member Posts: 1,550
    edited July 2017
    Oh man is that complicated. I am sure NG does also not understand it and will only worsen it with the next update by accidentally trying to improve it. :s
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  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421
    edited July 2017
    DLich said:

    2 lvl 19's starts at RSL 13 and triples at 18
    2 lvl 20's starts at RSL 14 and triples at 19
    2 lvl 21's starts at RSL 15 and triples at 20

    but

    2 lvl 22's starts at RSL 15 and triples at 21

    I think you have a typo here... your charts show this correctly, but 2 lvl 22s and 1 level 21 starts at RSL 15 (agree) but should triple at RSL 20 instead of 21.

    Don't worry, you're still Lt. Commander Data in my book!

    Edit - full disclosure, @javajnkie found this, not me. Credit goes to her. ;-)

    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    DLich
  • javajnkiejavajnkie Member Posts: 553
    I'm fine in the shadows, @Bill_ZRT

    Thanks to both of you for doing all of this work!
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  • DodkongDodkong Member Posts: 1,048
    The explanation on the adjustment to token salvage was because they wanted to avoid confusion and simplify it.

    And yet this issue persists, fomenting confusion and frustration. Is it all surprising that it takes career number cruchers to wade through the muck and mire to show those less numerically inclined where the sweet spot is?

    Brain surgery and nuclear physics seem less complex than finding the best spot to freeze our survivors.
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  • Conan1976Conan1976 Member Posts: 758
    Great work guys! Keep it up :)
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  • 淡水地鼠淡水地鼠 Member Posts: 278
    Dlich should be content creator
    DLichBill_ZRTMattOfEarth
  • TroublemakerTroublemaker Member Posts: 1,468
    I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but fact is we have PLAYERS ON HOBBY doing a better job than PAID PROFESSIONALS inside NG.

    This penalty for upgrading really hurt.
  • thisdoesfinethisdoesfine Member Posts: 360
    DLich said:

    @Bill_ZRT Just so I understand how starting RSL and triple rounds are determined it's.

    Starting RSL = (sum of best 3 survivors * .7) divided by 3
    example - (23+22+22) = 67*.7 = 46.9 divided by 3 = 15.63 rounded to 16

    Triple rounds starting = (sum of best 3 survivors divided by 3) - 1
    example - (23+22+22) = 67 divided by 3 = 22.33 rounded to 22 minus 1 = 21* (see note)

    *note edit I believe I seen in your spreadsheet that triple rounds starting ignores the remainder & if it's 22.01 through 22.99 it's all 22. Is that correct?

    Is that a correct assessment?

    So I used this formula to determine what my starting RSL would be this week and it says it will be "12" although when I opened the game, it's actually 11. Did I do something wrong, or, is the formula wrong, or, did it change?

    My survivors are 16,17,17.
    (16+17+17) = 50
    50 x .7 = 35
    35 / 3 = 11.66666
    11.66666 = 12
    BUT, the game started me @ 11
  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289
    Starting level is round DOWN, never up.
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  • thisdoesfinethisdoesfine Member Posts: 360
    Putchuco said:

    Starting level is round DOWN, never up.

    So, there's no rounding, ignore remainder on both Starting and x3 ?
  • thisdoesfinethisdoesfine Member Posts: 360
    @Bill_ZRT can you clarify my above question (3 posts up)
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,421

    @Bill_ZRT can you clarify my above question (3 posts up)

    Here is a link to the spreadsheet I made that shows starting and repeat RSL.

    The formulas I used in this spreadsheet have been documented here on the forums and in discussions with NG. A month or two ago I was told there there was a level of imprecision with the formulas used that causes the math to break down at lower levels, however NG has so far elected not to clarify what that imprecision is.

    You're right - the formula I use predicts that your starting RSL would be 12 and your repeat RSL would be 15. If I can collect more data regarding starting and repeat RSL at lower levels I can try to figure out what tweak needs to be made to the formula so it's 100% accurate (more likely I will stare at the data for 3 days and @DLich will figure it out in 10 minutes). I would be thrilled if @Shteevie would clarify the imprecision in the formula so it could be corrected and be 100% accurate.
    Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart.
    But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.

    Contact [email protected] or send @Bill_ZRT a message to join DTP today!

    DLich
  • thisdoesfinethisdoesfine Member Posts: 360
    @Bill_ZRT
    Again, my team was 16, 17, 17 and started at 11 with a 11.667 formula result (rounded down)
    Another guild member had 3 15's and started at level 10 with a 10.5 formula result (rounded down)
    My alt account was 3 11's and started at level 8 (formula worked) with a formula result of 7.7 (rounded up)

    Maybe others can start posting their results here for you (us).
This discussion has been closed.