Wrestling needs to be limited - and the time is NOW

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Comments

  • BrenrBrenr Member Posts: 34
    I don't feel the wrestler trait needs to be limited. It is one of the only things left on this game that makes people continue to play. Interrupt and dodge were already nerfed and it was away to get to higher level which made the game fun. If everyone was limited to how far they could go in the challenge everyone would have the same score and it would be boring, The players that use the wrestler trait in high level have to spend gold to heal if they want to keep going. I think some players don't want to spend the time and money to keep their place on the leader board. Therefore some feel like every good part of this game needs to be nerfed so everyone is equal and the same.Please don't take away one of the only things that keep some players playing and keep trying to get to higher levels.
    Bill_ZRTPutchucoJadenkjmia421Pig
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @jester A similar question was:

    Does NG consider it an exploit to use Freeman bug to defeat The Distance?
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    They are giving badges for defeating it, right? Isn't that some kind of answer already...?



    MattOfEarthpaintbeast
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    edited September 2017
    @jester
    You're free to ask for an explicit yes or no from NG, but I think the statement on Wednesday morning pretty well shows that they don't consider it an exploit, or at least not one that breaks any rules, but will at least be discussing possible changes in the future..

    If you mean about people completing it then the official statement is, congratulations! Some people here thought that it would happen @Fearofabotplanet and others thought that we wouldn't have a winner this week @Shteevie. And regarding tactics and the feelings of players regarding those tactics, of course we'll take our data and community feedback into account when looking at how to move forward with The Distance.


    The reason that my statement is pretty neutral is that it's early days. It still seems really hard for most people to complete The Distance, but if it looks like exploits are undermining the core idea of the game mode (which is that it's really really hard) then perhaps that'll need to be changed in the future. The event will end soon and we'll see how many people have completed it. Note: Those who have completed it and are forum users head over to the check-in thread to claim your badge!

    But your responses, and the responses of the wider community, as always are welcome and vital in helping us shape the direction that things are taken. Please bring me back from The Neutral Planet.

    Edited to add 2nd quote.
    JerryDixonkjmia421
  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 618
    Suppose those walkers weren't killed off by the Wrestler trait. What if it was the new Revenge trait that killed them. Would that then need to be done away with because not everyone has the trait or knows how to utilize it correctly?

    Don't hate the trait.
    “Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”

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  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289

    Suppose those walkers weren't killed off by the Wrestler trait. What if it was the new Revenge trait that killed them. Would that then need to be done away with because not everyone has the trait or knows how to utilize it correctly?



    Don't hate the trait.

    Revenge on a lvl9 survivor can kill a lvl 40 walker in one shot now?
    Dude, your are totally missing the point.
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  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,931
    Missing the point seems te be a sport to some.
  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 618
    @Putchuco
    I was merely offering a hypothetical. It is not the Wrestler trait that some have a problem with, but rather how it is utilized by others. All I am trying to say is people shouldn't hate on a specific gear trait just because they haven't figured out how to utilize it the same way other players have. It's not my play style, but I wouldn't seek to hinder the play styles of others just because I don't use it the same way they do.
    “Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”

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  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,931
    I don't think this discussion is full of people being jealous of other peoples skills. Not full of people trying to take away from others.
    Don't frame people like that,

    I'm sure there are some where your reasoning applies, but if you would get the point. You'd understand there are much more "points" addressed in this discussion and ignoring those is literally "missing the point".
    Putchuco
  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 618
    @jimmorrison369
    Then why has nobody ever complained about the Wrestler trait until now?
    “Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”

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    DLich
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,931
    I don't think I'll be able to make you understand my POV, I say bananas, you hear apples. You say pears I hear tutti frutti. It's hard to have a discussion like that.
    MattOfEarthPutchuco
  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 618
    edited September 2017
    > @jimmorrison369 said:
    > I don't think I'll be able to make you understand my POV, I say bananas, you hear apples. You say pears I hear tutti frutti. It's hard to have a discussion like that.

    Same statement works both ways, my friend. Let's just respectfully agree to disagree. Live and let live. We've been on the same side of issues in the past, and will be again in the future, just not on this one. No hard feelings, I hope.
    “Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”

    Elder of JiltedProphet - 2 MILLION Stars and counting! Always recruiting, get in touch!
    jimmorrison369
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,931
    @MattOfEarth
    It sure does (some people tend to forget that part sometimes). No harm done.

    I'll also agree on your part about not hindering others in their play style. I really don't like people trying to take away from others, just because they don't like it.

    I'll also agree that it is not the wrestler trait itself wich is causing the problem.
    But still stand by my statements
    MattOfEarthPutchucoDLich
  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289
    @Terminates I feel we are arguing the same thing just from two different sides lol

    Yes, to getting creative on new tactics, trying out new things, combine new teams, etc etc
    A THOUSAND times yes! That's what has made this game, that's what kept us here even after two years.

    Maybe you can see just a little bit of my argument in this threat that the overpowered wrestling trait is limiting the end-game to just one trait, and keep using it until we run out of time and money.
    Sure, there is some skill and experience needed to push it this far.
    But, do you have developed/used any other tactics lately to achieve the same?
    My point is that an OP wrestling is limiting us, the game and the mission developers drastically.

    In hindsight I am glad we re-balanced interrupt/dodge, because it was getting ridiculous to keep fighting high-lvl walkers the exact same way. It reduced the game just that: interrupt and dodge. We can still use it in the Bunker run, and maybe some others when combined with wrestling.

    Are people eager to learn to use wrestling so they too can get the higher rewards and high star counts? Sure, because there is no other way to get to 1500+.
    Are people resisting a re-balance of wrestling because it would limit the 'edge' they perceive they have currently over others? Possibly.
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  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289
    @MattOfEarth why do you keep trying to bait or insult me?
    Are you seriously suggesting i don't 'know' how to use wrestling or am simply jealous of the people scoring higher than me with it?

    That is low, dude, very low.
    Try making an actual argument in favor of wrestling.
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  • NG_SamNG_Sam Staff Posts: 545
    edited September 2017
    We seem to be going round in circles now - I think within the five pages here we've heard the meat from both arguments. Closing it down before it degenerates.

    Re: opening by popular demand, but be warned: if the discourse disappears and baiting and insults take over then action will be taken.
    MattOfEarthNeoTheOnePutchucoKaLiGeneral_Pain
  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    edited September 2017
    > @jester said:
    > @Shteevie @Fearofabotplanet @Teeceezy
    >
    > Does NG consider it an exploit to use wrestler armor to defeat The Distance?

    Nobody has a problem with wrestler. The question should be will you continue to allow people to call and retire numerous LLS survivors after using wrestling. You can't do that in any other game mode so effectively since there is no progress save . So saying working as intended with current game mechanics is BS.

    Lock the roster when you start and call it a day. Based on how the distance was described you want the most high level char possible in available slots. Not falsley inflating your roster using 100+ radios and repeatedly calling /scrapping to get 100+ 1 shot kills via wrestler
    mik81
  • PutchucoPutchuco Member Posts: 1,289
    edited September 2017
    @Techfall I see your point, and it has been made by others too.
    But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts?
    BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself.
    I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.

    To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on. :disappointed:
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  • TechfallTechfall Member Posts: 168
    edited September 2017
    > @Putchuco said:
    > @Techfall I see your point, and it has been made by others too.
    > But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts?
    > BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself.
    > I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.
    >
    > To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on. :disappointed:

    If people want to spend real money to expand their roster by 100+ slots that's fine if NG wants to have no cap on roster for the distance. But repeatedly calling scrapping is deliberately avoiding the intention of the game mode. Even expanding your roster to such a large level you can't fail is cheap too. The idea was you want elite survivors not just face roll through with lls+wrestler or massive roster of crappy survivors thanks to progress save. But who knows maybe NG likes seeing all the cheesy tactics after spending months on design
  • tdiddytdiddy Member Posts: 355
    "there is no other way to get to 1500 +" once again completely false i know some that routinely hit 1650 before having to wrestle...... please don't spout incorrect info
    MonsutaJadenNCDawgFanzeowerus
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 242
    Let's be pragmatic here, and let's go beyond arguments of game design with this issue. Let's take a look at it from NG's perspective, and gain some insight on that based on the evolution of changes in this game from their perspective.

    NG has nerfed several widely used player tactics in the past. Reference previous NG changes to bruisers' stun, 100% interrupt, the stacking of luck/dodge/bullet bodge, and hunter range, among others. These changes were universally denounced by the player base. NG took the heat and made the changes anyway. They undoubtedly lost some players because of these changes. So why did they do it? NG has a strong desire to change widely used player tactics when they succeed to become predominant in the game.

    NG believed these previous changes were in the best interest of the company. The best interest of the company is simply that they believe they will make more money from the changes versus letting players continue with widely used existing tactics. It's understandable that the game becomes stale, and more importantly in-app sales stagnant, when a tactic for success in this game becomes predominant over time. NG is not afraid to changes things up in the game to require new player strategies and new player investment. NG would prefer widely varying and constantly evolving player strategies for success in any of their games.

    89% of NG's revenue comes from in-app purchases. I think one can assume that The Distance was a change designed to further incent players make long term investments in new and stronger survivors, upgraded equipment, new traits, and new badges. This means players will require more radios, better equipment, gold for badge components, etc, etc. The Distance was introduced by NG with the hope that it would boost in-app sales. Does the wrestler strategy in general somewhat blunt the necessity of these type of investments to finish the challenge? IMHO, it does. More and more players will gravitate to the wrestler strategy to go further in The Distance quickly as time goes on. If a player doesn't want to go through the hassle of radio call/equip/wrestle/scrap/ repeat to finish The Distance, a player can easily use the strategy to get a mission or two more finished than they would without it. This strategy requires very little long term investment. Over time, the wrestler strategy in The Distance will become more widely used over time, just like the other tactics mentioned above did. We all know what happened to those tactics.

    It's certain that NG invested some significant time and money into the development of 2.7, and I am sure NG management expects a return on that investment. So it boils down simply as this: Does NG believe it's in their best interests (i.e. will they make more money) if they let players use the wrestle trait to go further in The Distance, or does NG make more money in the long run by curtailing the wrestle trait and making players find other tactics to succeed? Or perhaps they don't believe it will make any significant difference, and thus they will not change it.

    Personally, I'd go as far to say that if NG had never buffed the wrestler trait to become the offensive weapon as it is now, they would have made more money from in-app sales versus what they do in the present situation with the wrestle trait.

    That's my opinion, but I am not the one looking at their in-app sales reports on a daily basis. NG does have third quarter financials closing soon, and every NG employee hopes third quarter financial results will cause their stock price to go up. It's probably not a coincidence that the last 3 updates to this game came at the end of fiscal quarters when public companies try to boost their financial results.

    Give it some more time, and we will see whether NG believes whether the wrestle tactic is better for their bottom line or not.
    mik81KaLi
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited September 2017
    @Putchuco Top player with the help of 9 stars or 10 stars can easily hit 1600+ without the need of wrestler trait, now with the new badge system, they can push further than before.
    I'm surprised that you yourself are in the top ranking leaderboard as well but could said such wrong statement.
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
    tdiddyI_Am_Psychozeowerus
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    nadecir said:

    So it boils down simply as this: Does NG believe it's in their best interests (i.e. will they make more money) if they let players use the wrestle trait to go further in The Distance, or does NG make more money in the long run by curtailing the wrestle trait and making players find other tactics to succeed? Or perhaps they don't believe it will make any significant difference, and thus they will not change it.

    This is the true question. Our opinions matter little, it's ultimately what's best for the company.

    I don't believe wrestler trait will be changed. But I do believe there will eventually be some type of "snapshot" of survivors when it starts that you can't add more. That would ultimately be the solution I think.

    Players can just call a single "one time use" survivor using wrestler and then throw them away. If NG got rid of that ability to add more after the event starts then players will have to use the 40 gold option to get "another use" out of the wrestler ability from the survivor that wrestled successfully and survived.

    I don't play with wrestler but it's my understanding it doesn't work if you have "red" health. If you have "green" health it could work. So at higher RSL's it's a "one hit" use per map and unless you spend 40 gold to get back to green then it cant be used again with that survivor.

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  • WeekOneWeekOne Member Posts: 1,195
    Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.

    Giving instant kill on a brain stab would be more in alignment with the show as far as I’m concerned.

    What bothers me is they took some good stuff away from us and gave us this which is too easy.... that’s all. I don’t hate people using wrestler trait.

    I want other traits that I can also feel extremely confident going in a high level map that are as effective.

    I feel like NG is working hard to try to give us some other tools but they are not as effective.
    tdiddyCaptainslayerPutchuco
  • Bill_ZRTBill_ZRT Member Posts: 1,394
    WeekOne said:

    Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.

    Wrestling isn't 100% insta-kill. Multiple times last week I had survivors get into a struggle that lasted more than one round. If all three characters get into a struggle, the map ends - you've failed. Wrestling is neither instant or 100% effective.

    I agree that it would be nice to have some more interesting and varied tactics to use. I agree 100% with this, but we can't call wrestling something it isn't.

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  • TroublemakerTroublemaker Member Posts: 1,253
    @Shteevie thanks for stopping by and chatting with us.

    @Fearofabotplanet your post today was awesome.

    I'm glad you are talking to the players and playing an open game.
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  • I_Am_PsychoI_Am_Psycho Member Posts: 1,431
    @Shteevie - Absolutely awesome post.

    This promped me to look at announcements as well :)
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