I don't feel the wrestler trait needs to be limited. It is one of the only things left on this game that makes people continue to play. Interrupt and dodge were already nerfed and it was away to get to higher level which made the game fun. If everyone was limited to how far they could go in the challenge everyone would have the same score and it would be boring, The players that use the wrestler trait in high level have to spend gold to heal if they want to keep going. I think some players don't want to spend the time and money to keep their place on the leader board. Therefore some feel like every good part of this game needs to be nerfed so everyone is equal and the same.Please don't take away one of the only things that keep some players playing and keep trying to get to higher levels.
@jester You're free to ask for an explicit yes or no from NG, but I think the statement on Wednesday morning pretty well shows that they don't consider it an exploit, or at least not one that breaks any rules, but will at least be discussing possible changes in the future..
If you mean about people completing it then the official statement is, congratulations! Some people here thought that it would happen @Fearofabotplanet and others thought that we wouldn't have a winner this week @Shteevie. And regarding tactics and the feelings of players regarding those tactics, of course we'll take our data and community feedback into account when looking at how to move forward with The Distance.
The reason that my statement is pretty neutral is that it's early days. It still seems really hard for most people to complete The Distance, but if it looks like exploits are undermining the core idea of the game mode (which is that it's really really hard) then perhaps that'll need to be changed in the future. The event will end soon and we'll see how many people have completed it. Note: Those who have completed it and are forum users head over to the check-in thread to claim your badge!
But your responses, and the responses of the wider community, as always are welcome and vital in helping us shape the direction that things are taken. Please bring me back from The Neutral Planet.
Suppose those walkers weren't killed off by the Wrestler trait. What if it was the new Revenge trait that killed them. Would that then need to be done away with because not everyone has the trait or knows how to utilize it correctly?
Don't hate the trait.
“Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”
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Suppose those walkers weren't killed off by the Wrestler trait. What if it was the new Revenge trait that killed them. Would that then need to be done away with because not everyone has the trait or knows how to utilize it correctly?
Don't hate the trait.
Revenge on a lvl9 survivor can kill a lvl 40 walker in one shot now? Dude, your are totally missing the point.
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@Putchuco
I was merely offering a hypothetical. It is not the Wrestler trait that some have a problem with, but rather how it is utilized by others. All I am trying to say is people shouldn't hate on a specific gear trait just because they haven't figured out how to utilize it the same way other players have. It's not my play style, but I wouldn't seek to hinder the play styles of others just because I don't use it the same way they do.
“Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”
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I don't think this discussion is full of people being jealous of other peoples skills. Not full of people trying to take away from others.
Don't frame people like that,
I'm sure there are some where your reasoning applies, but if you would get the point. You'd understand there are much more "points" addressed in this discussion and ignoring those is literally "missing the point".
I don't think I'll be able to make you understand my POV, I say bananas, you hear apples. You say pears I hear tutti frutti. It's hard to have a discussion like that.
> @jimmorrison369 said:
> I don't think I'll be able to make you understand my POV, I say bananas, you hear apples. You say pears I hear tutti frutti. It's hard to have a discussion like that.
Same statement works both ways, my friend. Let's just respectfully agree to disagree. Live and let live. We've been on the same side of issues in the past, and will be again in the future, just not on this one. No hard feelings, I hope.
“Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”
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@MattOfEarth
It sure does (some people tend to forget that part sometimes). No harm done.
I'll also agree on your part about not hindering others in their play style. I really don't like people trying to take away from others, just because they don't like it.
I'll also agree that it is not the wrestler trait itself wich is causing the problem.
But still stand by my statements
@Terminates I feel we are arguing the same thing just from two different sides lol
Yes, to getting creative on new tactics, trying out new things, combine new teams, etc etc A THOUSAND times yes! That's what has made this game, that's what kept us here even after two years.
Maybe you can see just a little bit of my argument in this threat that the overpowered wrestling trait is limiting the end-game to just one trait, and keep using it until we run out of time and money. Sure, there is some skill and experience needed to push it this far. But, do you have developed/used any other tactics lately to achieve the same? My point is that an OP wrestling is limiting us, the game and the mission developers drastically.
In hindsight I am glad we re-balanced interrupt/dodge, because it was getting ridiculous to keep fighting high-lvl walkers the exact same way. It reduced the game just that: interrupt and dodge. We can still use it in the Bunker run, and maybe some others when combined with wrestling.
Are people eager to learn to use wrestling so they too can get the higher rewards and high star counts? Sure, because there is no other way to get to 1500+. Are people resisting a re-balance of wrestling because it would limit the 'edge' they perceive they have currently over others? Possibly.
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@MattOfEarth why do you keep trying to bait or insult me? Are you seriously suggesting i don't 'know' how to use wrestling or am simply jealous of the people scoring higher than me with it?
That is low, dude, very low. Try making an actual argument in favor of wrestling.
If you would like to join a drama-free and fun group of enthusiasts, contact us via email at [email protected]
We seem to be going round in circles now - I think within the five pages here we've heard the meat from both arguments. Closing it down before it degenerates.
Re: opening by popular demand, but be warned: if the discourse disappears and baiting and insults take over then action will be taken.
Nobody has a problem with wrestler. The question should be will you continue to allow people to call and retire numerous LLS survivors after using wrestling. You can't do that in any other game mode so effectively since there is no progress save . So saying working as intended with current game mechanics is BS.
Lock the roster when you start and call it a day. Based on how the distance was described you want the most high level char possible in available slots. Not falsley inflating your roster using 100+ radios and repeatedly calling /scrapping to get 100+ 1 shot kills via wrestler
@Techfall I see your point, and it has been made by others too. But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts? BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself. I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.
To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on.
If you would like to join a drama-free and fun group of enthusiasts, contact us via email at [email protected]
> @Putchuco said:
> @Techfall I see your point, and it has been made by others too.
> But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts?
> BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself.
> I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.
>
> To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on.
If people want to spend real money to expand their roster by 100+ slots that's fine if NG wants to have no cap on roster for the distance. But repeatedly calling scrapping is deliberately avoiding the intention of the game mode. Even expanding your roster to such a large level you can't fail is cheap too. The idea was you want elite survivors not just face roll through with lls+wrestler or massive roster of crappy survivors thanks to progress save. But who knows maybe NG likes seeing all the cheesy tactics after spending months on design
"there is no other way to get to 1500 +" once again completely false i know some that routinely hit 1650 before having to wrestle...... please don't spout incorrect info
Let's be pragmatic here, and let's go beyond arguments of game design with this issue. Let's take a look at it from NG's perspective, and gain some insight on that based on the evolution of changes in this game from their perspective.
NG has nerfed several widely used player tactics in the past. Reference previous NG changes to bruisers' stun, 100% interrupt, the stacking of luck/dodge/bullet bodge, and hunter range, among others. These changes were universally denounced by the player base. NG took the heat and made the changes anyway. They undoubtedly lost some players because of these changes. So why did they do it? NG has a strong desire to change widely used player tactics when they succeed to become predominant in the game.
NG believed these previous changes were in the best interest of the company. The best interest of the company is simply that they believe they will make more money from the changes versus letting players continue with widely used existing tactics. It's understandable that the game becomes stale, and more importantly in-app sales stagnant, when a tactic for success in this game becomes predominant over time. NG is not afraid to changes things up in the game to require new player strategies and new player investment. NG would prefer widely varying and constantly evolving player strategies for success in any of their games.
89% of NG's revenue comes from in-app purchases. I think one can assume that The Distance was a change designed to further incent players make long term investments in new and stronger survivors, upgraded equipment, new traits, and new badges. This means players will require more radios, better equipment, gold for badge components, etc, etc. The Distance was introduced by NG with the hope that it would boost in-app sales. Does the wrestler strategy in general somewhat blunt the necessity of these type of investments to finish the challenge? IMHO, it does. More and more players will gravitate to the wrestler strategy to go further in The Distance quickly as time goes on. If a player doesn't want to go through the hassle of radio call/equip/wrestle/scrap/ repeat to finish The Distance, a player can easily use the strategy to get a mission or two more finished than they would without it. This strategy requires very little long term investment. Over time, the wrestler strategy in The Distance will become more widely used over time, just like the other tactics mentioned above did. We all know what happened to those tactics.
It's certain that NG invested some significant time and money into the development of 2.7, and I am sure NG management expects a return on that investment. So it boils down simply as this: Does NG believe it's in their best interests (i.e. will they make more money) if they let players use the wrestle trait to go further in The Distance, or does NG make more money in the long run by curtailing the wrestle trait and making players find other tactics to succeed? Or perhaps they don't believe it will make any significant difference, and thus they will not change it.
Personally, I'd go as far to say that if NG had never buffed the wrestler trait to become the offensive weapon as it is now, they would have made more money from in-app sales versus what they do in the present situation with the wrestle trait.
That's my opinion, but I am not the one looking at their in-app sales reports on a daily basis. NG does have third quarter financials closing soon, and every NG employee hopes third quarter financial results will cause their stock price to go up. It's probably not a coincidence that the last 3 updates to this game came at the end of fiscal quarters when public companies try to boost their financial results.
Give it some more time, and we will see whether NG believes whether the wrestle tactic is better for their bottom line or not.
@Putchuco Top player with the help of 9 stars or 10 stars can easily hit 1600+ without the need of wrestler trait, now with the new badge system, they can push further than before.
I'm surprised that you yourself are in the top ranking leaderboard as well but could said such wrong statement.
So it boils down simply as this: Does NG believe it's in their best interests (i.e. will they make more money) if they let players use the wrestle trait to go further in The Distance, or does NG make more money in the long run by curtailing the wrestle trait and making players find other tactics to succeed? Or perhaps they don't believe it will make any significant difference, and thus they will not change it.
This is the true question. Our opinions matter little, it's ultimately what's best for the company.
I don't believe wrestler trait will be changed. But I do believe there will eventually be some type of "snapshot" of survivors when it starts that you can't add more. That would ultimately be the solution I think.
Players can just call a single "one time use" survivor using wrestler and then throw them away. If NG got rid of that ability to add more after the event starts then players will have to use the 40 gold option to get "another use" out of the wrestler ability from the survivor that wrestled successfully and survived.
I don't play with wrestler but it's my understanding it doesn't work if you have "red" health. If you have "green" health it could work. So at higher RSL's it's a "one hit" use per map and unless you spend 40 gold to get back to green then it cant be used again with that survivor.
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I've read through the majority of this post and I just can't seem to get my head around it. Why do people care SO much about how other people play the game?! If some one found a power up star, ala super Mario bros, that no one else could get and were able to just walk through every level of The Distance, how EXACTLY does that affect ANYONE else's game experience? A player with no connection to the forum is blissfully unaware of all of this upheaval or of anyone using this trait to beat The Distance and guess what, it has NO effect WHATSOEVER on their game!
Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.
Giving instant kill on a brain stab would be more in alignment with the show as far as I’m concerned.
What bothers me is they took some good stuff away from us and gave us this which is too easy.... that’s all. I don’t hate people using wrestler trait.
I want other traits that I can also feel extremely confident going in a high level map that are as effective.
I feel like NG is working hard to try to give us some other tools but they are not as effective.
Can NG not give us another trait that is a 100% instant kill? Like brain stab on scouts? If they can’t do it, then there is a problem with the effectiveness of the wrestler trait.
Wrestling isn't 100% insta-kill. Multiple times last week I had survivors get into a struggle that lasted more than one round. If all three characters get into a struggle, the map ends - you've failed. Wrestling is neither instant or 100% effective.
I agree that it would be nice to have some more interesting and varied tactics to use. I agree 100% with this, but we can't call wrestling something it isn't.
Everyone’s got two wolves inside them. One is anger, envy, pride. The other…truth, kindness. Every day they tear each other apart. But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
It's been an exciting two weeks here in the NG offices. That's what happens when you release a new update with contents that are spread out over a number of weeks, and there are lots of things to address. You all have been very patient waiting for this new content, and we want to improve it as much as possible so that it stays fun and interesting for a long time.
I wanted to lay out a few things from my personal point of view as a single member of the development team. There are a few reasons behind this; one, the implications or accusations between players of impropriety are not helpful and should stop. Two, assumptions about what we at NG know, don't know, intended or were surprised by are extremely likely to be followed by statements about what we will or won't do next. Far as I know, the forum has no mind-readers in it.
So, for the record, I personally was being honest when I said that no one would likely beat the Distance the first time out. Were it not for several glitches and bugs, most of which have been fixed [see Fear's announcement elsewhere on the forums], I think that would likely have been the case. This doesn't take away from the wins that anyone managed to pull off [believe me; I got a lot of stick in the office when the first victory shots were posted], but it does of course mean that we are obliged to address the glitches and bugs as we can.
Secondly, we have been in conversations with players, guild leaders, and amongst the dev team about Wrestler and the ways it is used for months now. This includes reviewing the event data about when missions of any game mode are completed with a survivor at low health and equipped with the Wrestler trait. How often this is done, what levels those survivors are, and all of that. We have the data, and we're reading it.
It is definitely the case that changing any of the traits, even to make them better, will make people upset. People are invested in their gear - hunting for it or buying it, then upgrading it, takes time and resources. We don't want to make these changes in a 'knee-jerk' way, and not unless they prove to be necessary to maintain or restore the balance in the game. That balance is a goal that there would be no single way to solve a particular situation. It's naive to say that "all classes or all traits will be equally good" - that would be boring. But it is the case that "The only way to beat mission X is with strategy / trick Y" is a sign of imbalance.
No player that has been using the Wrestler trait should be considered an "exploitive player". We made that trait work the way it does, and people are using it. Full stop. Same goes for people using the Rest button or the phone calls to extend the usage of the trait. We knew full well that some would try it, and that they would meet with mixed success.
We also know that players will react to the events in different ways. Some will see using Wrestler with a series of "sacrificial lambs" to be worth it because of the rewards. Some will see it as a boring, tedious chore. Some will be turned off of the Distance altogether if they think that the only way to succeed is through executing a boring, tedious chore. Some will try to prove others wrong and attempt a win without using a strategy that they do not personally enjoy or approve of. And, here is the important part, all of these people is completely correct in forming their opinion and acting upon it. It's up to us to try and ensure that the largest number of people stay with the game as possible.
With all of this said, I cannot tell you if we will be changing the Wrestler trait. Several ideas on how we might do so exist, but it has not yet been decided if or which will be carried out. I can say a few things, though:
-If we do change it, you will learn about it in advance so that you can make decisions about goals and rewards before the change goes into effect. -If we do change it, we will try to add to the strategic opportunities it creates, and help it work more in line with other mechanics in the game -We are not considering completely removing it, least of all because it would be very difficult to manage all of the armor players have that already has the trait. But also because people worked hard and paid for it, and so should keep it in one form or another. -If we do change it, we will do so in a way that continues to keep the trait useful to players who use it in very high level Challenges, albeit potentially in a different way.
In summary, we know that these changes have a big impact on players, and we don't make them lightly. We know how people are using Wrestler, and it's our intent to keep it useful without being a necessary, monotonous slog. We are still in discussions over how to proceed, and the whole dev team has a say in our decision.
I hope that this has helped people see where I am coming from personally, as a single member of the dev team. The discussion here has been very useful in helping us with our deliberations, and I hope that people will be able to accept the decision that comes out of it.
Development Team Member - The Walking Dead: No Man's Land Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
Comments
Does NG consider it an exploit to use wrestler armor to defeat The Distance?
Does NG consider it an exploit to use Freeman bug to defeat The Distance?
You're free to ask for an explicit yes or no from NG, but I think the statement on Wednesday morning pretty well shows that they don't consider it an exploit, or at least not one that breaks any rules, but will at least be discussing possible changes in the future.. Edited to add 2nd quote.
Don't hate the trait.
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Dude, your are totally missing the point.
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I was merely offering a hypothetical. It is not the Wrestler trait that some have a problem with, but rather how it is utilized by others. All I am trying to say is people shouldn't hate on a specific gear trait just because they haven't figured out how to utilize it the same way other players have. It's not my play style, but I wouldn't seek to hinder the play styles of others just because I don't use it the same way they do.
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Don't frame people like that,
I'm sure there are some where your reasoning applies, but if you would get the point. You'd understand there are much more "points" addressed in this discussion and ignoring those is literally "missing the point".
Then why has nobody ever complained about the Wrestler trait until now?
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> I don't think I'll be able to make you understand my POV, I say bananas, you hear apples. You say pears I hear tutti frutti. It's hard to have a discussion like that.
Same statement works both ways, my friend. Let's just respectfully agree to disagree. Live and let live. We've been on the same side of issues in the past, and will be again in the future, just not on this one. No hard feelings, I hope.
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It sure does (some people tend to forget that part sometimes). No harm done.
I'll also agree on your part about not hindering others in their play style. I really don't like people trying to take away from others, just because they don't like it.
I'll also agree that it is not the wrestler trait itself wich is causing the problem.
But still stand by my statements
Yes, to getting creative on new tactics, trying out new things, combine new teams, etc etc
A THOUSAND times yes! That's what has made this game, that's what kept us here even after two years.
Maybe you can see just a little bit of my argument in this threat that the overpowered wrestling trait is limiting the end-game to just one trait, and keep using it until we run out of time and money.
Sure, there is some skill and experience needed to push it this far.
But, do you have developed/used any other tactics lately to achieve the same?
My point is that an OP wrestling is limiting us, the game and the mission developers drastically.
In hindsight I am glad we re-balanced interrupt/dodge, because it was getting ridiculous to keep fighting high-lvl walkers the exact same way. It reduced the game just that: interrupt and dodge. We can still use it in the Bunker run, and maybe some others when combined with wrestling.
Are people eager to learn to use wrestling so they too can get the higher rewards and high star counts? Sure, because there is no other way to get to 1500+.
Are people resisting a re-balance of wrestling because it would limit the 'edge' they perceive they have currently over others? Possibly.
contact us via email at [email protected]
Are you seriously suggesting i don't 'know' how to use wrestling or am simply jealous of the people scoring higher than me with it?
That is low, dude, very low.
Try making an actual argument in favor of wrestling.
contact us via email at [email protected]
Re: opening by popular demand, but be warned: if the discourse disappears and baiting and insults take over then action will be taken.
> @Shteevie @Fearofabotplanet @Teeceezy
>
> Does NG consider it an exploit to use wrestler armor to defeat The Distance?
Nobody has a problem with wrestler. The question should be will you continue to allow people to call and retire numerous LLS survivors after using wrestling. You can't do that in any other game mode so effectively since there is no progress save . So saying working as intended with current game mechanics is BS.
Lock the roster when you start and call it a day. Based on how the distance was described you want the most high level char possible in available slots. Not falsley inflating your roster using 100+ radios and repeatedly calling /scrapping to get 100+ 1 shot kills via wrestler
But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts?
BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself.
I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.
To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on.
contact us via email at [email protected]
> @Techfall I see your point, and it has been made by others too.
> But, wouldnt this simply result in people creating a larger team and fill it with low-lvl survivors before the Distance starts?
> BTW, I didn't use any low-lvl survivors but still wrestled my way to the end using lvl22 toons, just to see it for myself.
> I think we are just shifting the problem a tiny bit if we only lock the roster.
>
> To me it feels like adding another bandaid to the problem, like adding a freeman to every level from now on.
If people want to spend real money to expand their roster by 100+ slots that's fine if NG wants to have no cap on roster for the distance. But repeatedly calling scrapping is deliberately avoiding the intention of the game mode. Even expanding your roster to such a large level you can't fail is cheap too. The idea was you want elite survivors not just face roll through with lls+wrestler or massive roster of crappy survivors thanks to progress save. But who knows maybe NG likes seeing all the cheesy tactics after spending months on design
NG has nerfed several widely used player tactics in the past. Reference previous NG changes to bruisers' stun, 100% interrupt, the stacking of luck/dodge/bullet bodge, and hunter range, among others. These changes were universally denounced by the player base. NG took the heat and made the changes anyway. They undoubtedly lost some players because of these changes. So why did they do it? NG has a strong desire to change widely used player tactics when they succeed to become predominant in the game.
NG believed these previous changes were in the best interest of the company. The best interest of the company is simply that they believe they will make more money from the changes versus letting players continue with widely used existing tactics. It's understandable that the game becomes stale, and more importantly in-app sales stagnant, when a tactic for success in this game becomes predominant over time. NG is not afraid to changes things up in the game to require new player strategies and new player investment. NG would prefer widely varying and constantly evolving player strategies for success in any of their games.
89% of NG's revenue comes from in-app purchases. I think one can assume that The Distance was a change designed to further incent players make long term investments in new and stronger survivors, upgraded equipment, new traits, and new badges. This means players will require more radios, better equipment, gold for badge components, etc, etc. The Distance was introduced by NG with the hope that it would boost in-app sales. Does the wrestler strategy in general somewhat blunt the necessity of these type of investments to finish the challenge? IMHO, it does. More and more players will gravitate to the wrestler strategy to go further in The Distance quickly as time goes on. If a player doesn't want to go through the hassle of radio call/equip/wrestle/scrap/ repeat to finish The Distance, a player can easily use the strategy to get a mission or two more finished than they would without it. This strategy requires very little long term investment. Over time, the wrestler strategy in The Distance will become more widely used over time, just like the other tactics mentioned above did. We all know what happened to those tactics.
It's certain that NG invested some significant time and money into the development of 2.7, and I am sure NG management expects a return on that investment. So it boils down simply as this: Does NG believe it's in their best interests (i.e. will they make more money) if they let players use the wrestle trait to go further in The Distance, or does NG make more money in the long run by curtailing the wrestle trait and making players find other tactics to succeed? Or perhaps they don't believe it will make any significant difference, and thus they will not change it.
Personally, I'd go as far to say that if NG had never buffed the wrestler trait to become the offensive weapon as it is now, they would have made more money from in-app sales versus what they do in the present situation with the wrestle trait.
That's my opinion, but I am not the one looking at their in-app sales reports on a daily basis. NG does have third quarter financials closing soon, and every NG employee hopes third quarter financial results will cause their stock price to go up. It's probably not a coincidence that the last 3 updates to this game came at the end of fiscal quarters when public companies try to boost their financial results.
Give it some more time, and we will see whether NG believes whether the wrestle tactic is better for their bottom line or not.
I'm surprised that you yourself are in the top ranking leaderboard as well but could said such wrong statement.
I don't believe wrestler trait will be changed. But I do believe there will eventually be some type of "snapshot" of survivors when it starts that you can't add more. That would ultimately be the solution I think.
Players can just call a single "one time use" survivor using wrestler and then throw them away. If NG got rid of that ability to add more after the event starts then players will have to use the 40 gold option to get "another use" out of the wrestler ability from the survivor that wrestled successfully and survived.
I don't play with wrestler but it's my understanding it doesn't work if you have "red" health. If you have "green" health it could work. So at higher RSL's it's a "one hit" use per map and unless you spend 40 gold to get back to green then it cant be used again with that survivor.
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Giving instant kill on a brain stab would be more in alignment with the show as far as I’m concerned.
What bothers me is they took some good stuff away from us and gave us this which is too easy.... that’s all. I don’t hate people using wrestler trait.
I want other traits that I can also feel extremely confident going in a high level map that are as effective.
I feel like NG is working hard to try to give us some other tools but they are not as effective.
I agree that it would be nice to have some more interesting and varied tactics to use. I agree 100% with this, but we can't call wrestling something it isn't.
But it’s not the better wolf that wins. It’s the one you feed.
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I wanted to lay out a few things from my personal point of view as a single member of the development team. There are a few reasons behind this; one, the implications or accusations between players of impropriety are not helpful and should stop. Two, assumptions about what we at NG know, don't know, intended or were surprised by are extremely likely to be followed by statements about what we will or won't do next. Far as I know, the forum has no mind-readers in it.
So, for the record, I personally was being honest when I said that no one would likely beat the Distance the first time out. Were it not for several glitches and bugs, most of which have been fixed [see Fear's announcement elsewhere on the forums], I think that would likely have been the case. This doesn't take away from the wins that anyone managed to pull off [believe me; I got a lot of stick in the office when the first victory shots were posted], but it does of course mean that we are obliged to address the glitches and bugs as we can.
Secondly, we have been in conversations with players, guild leaders, and amongst the dev team about Wrestler and the ways it is used for months now. This includes reviewing the event data about when missions of any game mode are completed with a survivor at low health and equipped with the Wrestler trait. How often this is done, what levels those survivors are, and all of that. We have the data, and we're reading it.
It is definitely the case that changing any of the traits, even to make them better, will make people upset. People are invested in their gear - hunting for it or buying it, then upgrading it, takes time and resources. We don't want to make these changes in a 'knee-jerk' way, and not unless they prove to be necessary to maintain or restore the balance in the game. That balance is a goal that there would be no single way to solve a particular situation. It's naive to say that "all classes or all traits will be equally good" - that would be boring. But it is the case that "The only way to beat mission X is with strategy / trick Y" is a sign of imbalance.
No player that has been using the Wrestler trait should be considered an "exploitive player". We made that trait work the way it does, and people are using it. Full stop. Same goes for people using the Rest button or the phone calls to extend the usage of the trait. We knew full well that some would try it, and that they would meet with mixed success.
We also know that players will react to the events in different ways. Some will see using Wrestler with a series of "sacrificial lambs" to be worth it because of the rewards. Some will see it as a boring, tedious chore. Some will be turned off of the Distance altogether if they think that the only way to succeed is through executing a boring, tedious chore. Some will try to prove others wrong and attempt a win without using a strategy that they do not personally enjoy or approve of. And, here is the important part, all of these people is completely correct in forming their opinion and acting upon it. It's up to us to try and ensure that the largest number of people stay with the game as possible.
With all of this said, I cannot tell you if we will be changing the Wrestler trait. Several ideas on how we might do so exist, but it has not yet been decided if or which will be carried out. I can say a few things, though:
-If we do change it, you will learn about it in advance so that you can make decisions about goals and rewards before the change goes into effect.
-If we do change it, we will try to add to the strategic opportunities it creates, and help it work more in line with other mechanics in the game
-We are not considering completely removing it, least of all because it would be very difficult to manage all of the armor players have that already has the trait. But also because people worked hard and paid for it, and so should keep it in one form or another.
-If we do change it, we will do so in a way that continues to keep the trait useful to players who use it in very high level Challenges, albeit potentially in a different way.
In summary, we know that these changes have a big impact on players, and we don't make them lightly. We know how people are using Wrestler, and it's our intent to keep it useful without being a necessary, monotonous slog. We are still in discussions over how to proceed, and the whole dev team has a say in our decision.
I hope that this has helped people see where I am coming from personally, as a single member of the dev team. The discussion here has been very useful in helping us with our deliberations, and I hope that people will be able to accept the decision that comes out of it.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
@Fearofabotplanet your post today was awesome.
I'm glad you are talking to the players and playing an open game.
This promped me to look at announcements as well
Last Stand BE have 4 places available for genuine GW players.
I can be contacted by PM for recruitment questions.