Upcoming Changes to the Wrestler Trait - Question For Advocates

This is a serious inquiry, no cheek or snark intended.
@WeekOne and @Putchuco were the most vocal lobbyists for changes to the Wrestler trait from what I saw so I'm going to tag them on this post, but feedback from people that were advocates for a change are also encouraged to respond.
The change NG is implementing to the Wrester trait in 2.8:
"This survivor automatically attacks any walker it struggles with each turn, dealing 40% of normal attack damage." [Silver: 65%; Gold: 95%].
(Wrestle attack will ignore body shot calculations)
Do you feel that:
- The change is spot on and you're happy with it?
- The change went too far?
- The change didn't go far enough?
Appreciate your time
tabernac
@WeekOne and @Putchuco were the most vocal lobbyists for changes to the Wrestler trait from what I saw so I'm going to tag them on this post, but feedback from people that were advocates for a change are also encouraged to respond.
The change NG is implementing to the Wrester trait in 2.8:
"This survivor automatically attacks any walker it struggles with each turn, dealing 40% of normal attack damage." [Silver: 65%; Gold: 95%].
(Wrestle attack will ignore body shot calculations)
Do you feel that:
- The change is spot on and you're happy with it?
- The change went too far?
- The change didn't go far enough?
Appreciate your time
tabernac
15
Comments
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This was the only trait that could insta kill any type of walker regardless health and level. If scouts had a charge attack capable of insta killing a walker, and I don't know if a bruiser crits with his charge ability it also kills the target etc... then wrestler would make sense on that meta.
Based on our current meta wrestler was too Over Powered and I'm guessing that is the reason why they are adjusting it. In my opinion it took too long, and it was perceived as "minor" issue until the Distance was released. Based on NG comments saying that they don't expect players to finish it, and that they designed for a mode where you will need to advance and progress by improving your survivors (via badges) I'd think they didn't expect what happened and that force them to prioritize this issue. I know what they said, but I think differently. Wrestling the Distance was too easy and they didn't accomplished their main goal with the game mode, it was a fiasco and it needed to be adjusted, they didn't do it listening to players but analyzing the way that they can accomplish their objectives. The own the game.
But NML meta is base on building up damage, revenge, punish, retaliate, etc... the adjustment to wrestler now is comparable to other traits( comparable to retaliate or revenge). In my opinion I would also let bruiser stun while wrestling(I'd think bruisers need more love), but I don't think that is how it will work... and that would be my only addition to it, I'd think it will be usable but maybe not a must trait on every single class and on every single piece of armor.
If you don't agree that wrestling was too powerful compare to other traits (the only reason to have in any class and as mandatory trait for any armor) and it wasn't aligned with the existing meta, then there is very little we can discuss about it.
I'm happy with it just because I'd like a balanced meta(not only here but in any game). I don't like to have an unique and single answer to any challenge. I'd like games where you have different resources that needs to be used in different situations. But of course that is just me.
2. I’m happy with a change to Wrestler, but I don’t think this is the best. New trait seems like auto-scrap but of course needs playtest;
3. Can’t say exactly yet. I agreed about Stun Resistance and then changed my mind. No limit is good. They should just lower percentages so that 100% is impossible or VERY hard to get (in a way that needs a totally specific character/gear build to avoid exploits).
I’m extremely happy and positive about 2.8, despite not liking some details.
Why does the pendulum have to swing all the way from one extreme to the other, and then back again? New wrestler *might* let me get one more round in the challenge than not having it. It's probably not worth taking up a trait slot.
I'm not an advocate for wrestler change, but I thought @Putchuco's suggestion was reasonable. If there had to be a nerf, that approach made sense. This is overkill.
Since there was a solution proposed that was so much more reasonable, I can't figure out why NG had to go and do this instead. Are player-originated solutions dismissed on principle?
Bad to the bone!
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"I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
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Bad to the bone!
The Notorious P.I.G.
"I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
"I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
That’s the main point IMO, not if it’s an exploit or no.
I’m glad it has ended.
* edit for typo
The faulty person is the guy who designed the Distance without knowledge of crucial game mechanics.
I guess some executive Ego was scrached that we easily beat he Distance and in a hurry work over night shift the wrestler trait was changed.
What really surprised me because I think high level challange wrestling is an incredible income source for NG. I guess the number guy was too slow to show / prepare the data to convince the executive guy to not change it because of income loss.
(Please insert some dilbert comic here).
Edit: forgot: the change went too far. But It is in line with NG behavior: always do it better then the player community proposals.
Anyhow I will check 2.8 look and adopt my game play.
Remember to use your charge abilities
"6 lvls above survivor (including pink starz): wrestling fails 100% of the time.
This would mean a lvl22 triple pink survivor cannot wrestle above lvl 31 enemy
1-5 lvls above survivor: gradually more chance of failing wrestling"
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/29430/wrestling-needs-to-be-limited-and-the-time-is-now/p1
His suggestion was not very popular at the time. But now it looks ok!
Bad to the bone!
The Notorious P.I.G.
"I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
"I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
Bad to the bone!
The Notorious P.I.G.
"I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
"I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
Bad to the bone!
The Notorious P.I.G.
"I'm stuck in forum prison, and time keeps draggin' on"
"I’ve never said I’m a perfect pig, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not."
When I read all the pre info that NG was releasing I was thinking that maps will be less populated with maybe 1 or 2 big "bosses"(I'd think they even call them like that). So you will need to get there with survivors that have their charge abilities already up, good amount of stars, good epic and leg badges, burning damage (-10% off each turn is great) etc.. and you'll need to run and some point even die strategically. You may use a good set of survivors to kill 1 of those, then another good set for the other "boss" and so on...
So in order to really beat the Distance you'll need an extensive roster of good to very good survivors. Nice badges, weapons, etc... And therefore when it was released no one could really beat it. You'll need to increase your roster, get tons of good badges, use gold to heal, etc...
Since they are releasing new traits this new game mode could be an opportunity for long players to keep those survivors investments, those pinky guys, 7, 8 and 9 stars, would be really good even with old traits, so that people could keep them and at the same time start building new survivors with newer fancier traits.
Right now you can beat the distance just with a big roster, quantity over quality. I though they wanted you to do quite the opposite, to invest en quality and not in quantity. Basically because those are long term decisions that usually help with the revenue.
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100%
I love the idea of having to wrestle with the walker instead of instant kill.Instant kill does not belong in NML as far as I’m concerned and I don’t believe one trait should give us a guaranteed instant kill, period.
Before some try to tell me wrestler does not instant kill “all the time”, let me reassure you all that I have the documentation to prove that it does [with a lvl 2 common wrestler armour no less] which is a complete farce to me.
Instant kill has got to go and I am happy that NG is finally getting rid of it.
As a player, I want goals and building up my survivors to be able to tackle the tough walkers and any other obstacle NML will give us is what gets me excited instead of what we have been dealing with for almost a year now.
I am looking forward to 2.8 and can’t wait to test our new wrestler trait.
WeekOne
Let's also look at the disproportionate relationship between low damage classes, assaults and bruisers, against high damage classes, scouts, shooters. This is but another stick in the eye to bruisers. Seriously, I want to use my bruisers, but they're mostly useless at higher levels and this reinforces that. There's no way that when a person uses a bat instead of a hammer wouldn't have the same amount of adrenaline kick in when they're about to get bit.
Also, let's be real about this aspect, too: this nerf is going to force many players to search for phones to try to find survivors with iron skin if their A team doesn't all have it, or grind trying to find useful iron skin badges. This will have an immense effect on folks that will be forced to restructure their A team (sure, my crew will be fine, but there are other people who play this game).
Let's also talk about trait dilution on armor. With three new traits (one of which has to do with speeding up training--so I'm looking forward to seeing the point of it as armor and for end-gamers), we now have a whole bunch of traits that can make it hard to find a usable piece of armor. Bullet proof is useless and wrestler is losing its point. Why keep bullet proof? No one likes it. Oh, it makes us grind more to try to find armor that is usable.
I'm not of the group of people who think "I've got mine, so I don't care about other players." I am not an advocate for any kind of nerf because I care about other people. If I didn't like wrestler, I just wouldn't use it. I wouldn't take my frustration out on other people.
I'd much rather keep wrestler, perhaps with a tweak that doesn't let a lvl15 survivor take down a lvl30 walker, but lets a lvl21 survivor take him down. I don't want rounds added at the bottom of the challenge to make up for lost rounds/stars at the top of the challenge. A rsl30 crate is much more useful than a rsl19 or 20 crate.
It's not the players' fault that NG didn't beta test the distance...if they did, they would not be nerfing wrestler entirely the way they are now.
Also if instant kill does not belong in NML, why spiked should have the ability to instant kill?
For example: I have always wondered why their isn't a "Headshot" trait that gave a small percentage chance (gold trait topping out at say 15-20%) to instantly kill a walker. That doesn't seem game breaking, does it? And it does keep with the source material.
The 2nd spikey took a couple of tries to take him down since my hunter wasn’t charged up.
I don’t remember After The Wildfire Challenge... sorry
Wrestler’s instant kill and the success rate is non sense to me.
At this stage of the game, I shouldn’t feel confident going up against a lvl 41 walker and instant kill on wrestler trait gives us that which is wrong to me.
The percentage chance might be higher than stated on the armor; but it is not always guaranteed.
It's clear that NG respects your views very much as this isn't the first time you were able to get a change through.
What I'm more interested to hear is this: what's the next balancing issue you plan to raise? (I'd like to get a head start). And could you possibly tell NG to re-install the discounted radio call event, please?
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If we are properly equipped, proper level, etc.... and other strong survivors helping him out, there is a good chance we will get out of the struggle and continue with the mission.
Not knowing if I am going to get out of the struggle 100% is exciting to me.
I believe this will encourage us to work on upgrading our survivors, equipment, and adding nice badges so we can properly handle the tough walkers instead of relying on wrestler’s instant kill to do the job for us.
> @WeekOne If our survivor don't deserve using wrestler to instant kill, why spiked should be able to instant kill our survivor? Don't you think spiked is too overpowered?
Rick wrestled Winslow and lived.