Piercing stacks like luck?

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  • abailey362abailey362 Member Posts: 304

    My assaults always crit hit on a charge attack

    Please define "always", or rather reevaluate that observation.
    I think you just have high critical chance on your survivor.
    90% max = 90% max. So "always" seems impossible to me. But 90% is pretty high and if you hit 10 walkers at once, on average 9 of them will get a critical hit.
    Wich might feel like "always".

    I don't know if the ruthless gain is added before or after the 10% reduction, but it still guarantees a critical hit and does more than 100% damage.

    Ruthless compensates for the lower damage yes, but doesn't do anything about the chances.

    I have an assault with low % critical chance, it definitely is not 100% critical on charge attacks.


    I have been watching more carefully since posting this yesterday, and there are a few hits that have not been critical. in a crowd it looks like it's on all enemies, but i've purposely been targeting less to watch it.

    While every hit is not critical, it is at least a normal hit.There haven't been any body shots against fatties using assault charges, even more than +5 RSL.
    abailey362 - TheHerdReturned - part of #THR Family



    jimmorrison369
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @DLich @jimmorrison369
    OK I did some testing, a level 14 common assault with bronze 10% piercing can normal hit a level 24 normal walker occasionally.
    I'll see if I can get enough critical chance badge on him & use non-piercing weapon to see if I can get any non-bodyshot hit.
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
    jimmorrison369DLich淡水地鼠
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    I wanted to test, but the only no-spawn map in the distance was still "low-level".

    I need some low-lvl gear...

    Guess I can't test just yet.
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    I just use 1 call on survivor, some will come with piercing weapon.
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,171
    edited October 2017
    Just to make sure we’re clear:

    All charged attacks are AT LEAST guaranteed non-body shots, regardless of enemy level and type.

    All Hunter/Shooter/Scout charged attacks are guaranteed critical attacks. If you make a second attack on the same turn as a critical (e.g., Shooter second attack or Scout Swift Strike), it is a regular attack.

    All charged attacks do at least as much damage as a normal attack, if not more due to Charging, Ruthless, and critical hits. There was a bug where charged attacks only did about 3/4 the damage of a normal attack because damage calculations were performed using the base, non-upgraded damage numbers of a weapon, but that bug has been fixed.
    Elder in Legacy Eh, a top 10 global Challenge and Guild Wars guild
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    MonsutaDLichjimmorrison369mik81
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 741
    JayZ said:

    All Hunter/Shooter/Scout charged attacks are guaranteed critical attacks.

    @JayZ Slight amendment:

    Hunter/Scout charged attacks are guaranteed critical attacks as well as the FIRST charged attack made by Shooters.

    I don't think the second Shooter charged attack is even always a non-body shot.
    JayZ
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @tabernac Shooter using their charged attack is non-bodyshot guaranteed critical hit, then the second shot is just a normal shot they usually do. Just like warrior double attack except their charged attack didn't guaranteed critical hit.
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
    tabernac
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 741
    @Monsuta I agree totally, but I wanted to tease the definition out a bit to avoid confusion!
    Monsutajimmorrison369
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,171
    tabernac said:

    JayZ said:

    All Hunter/Shooter/Scout charged attacks are guaranteed critical attacks.

    @JayZ Slight amendment:

    Hunter/Scout charged attacks are guaranteed critical attacks as well as the FIRST charged attack made by Shooters.

    I don't think the second Shooter charged attack is even always a non-body shot.
    Thanks! How is that clarification?
    Elder in Legacy Eh, a top 10 global Challenge and Guild Wars guild
    PM me or visit this link to join the Eh family!
    Visit this link for my Distance and Challenge strategy videos
    tabernac
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 741
    @JayZ

    It isn't, I read through your post too quickly. Apologies!
  • JayZJayZ Member Posts: 3,171
    @tabernac You had read it correctly the first time! I edited my original post based on the feedback you provided :)
    Elder in Legacy Eh, a top 10 global Challenge and Guild Wars guild
    PM me or visit this link to join the Eh family!
    Visit this link for my Distance and Challenge strategy videos
    tabernac
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    After some testing this weekend I couldn't replicate a normal attack against a high level walker. Daryl(lvl 14) shoot many times against lvl 21 walkers and beyond and all of them where body shoots(more than 100 times). So I'd think we can also agree that you cannot crit when a body shoot happens. In other words body shoots will limit your crit chance therefore high crit chances are kind of useless at high RSls for some classes.

    What I saw though is that if you do enough damage to kill the walker you don't get the "body shoot" in game text, and I'm guessing that was what confused me on first place.

    You can use your crit chances when using charging attacks as a body shoot doesn't happens on charge attacks. So maybe on Assaults and warriors having crit chances may be interesting but in general crit damage, or just damage would be always better than crit hit chances. Don't badge a scout, hunter or a shooter with 90% crit chances on high RSLs, body shots is just negating any crit hit to happen. You don't need sure shot/power strike on those classes either since those trait won't be applied on high RSLs

    Now the big question would be if we really need high crit chances on assaults and warriors or not. Assaults is a class that can tank and control a crowd, so I'd think we don't have much room for that crit hit chances. You'd probably will want health and damage reduction...(maybe a secondary assault? one tank type one high crit type?) On warriors you may have crit chance, but in high RSL may be tricky to get 3 charge points to release a powerful crit attack. You may need there also some extra health or damage reduction...

  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    mik81 said:

    So I'd think we can also agree that you cannot crit when a body shoot happens.

    I didn't know you where wondering about this. This has been verified by NG long ago.
    Body-shot is a beat all kind of thing.
    ____________________________
    mik81 said:

    What I saw though is that if you do enough damage to kill the walker you don't get the "body shoot" in game text, and I'm guessing that was what confused me on first place.

    Yeah, this is really annoying when you want to find out body-shot chances against low-level.
    ____________________________
    mik81 said:

    Don't badge a scout, hunter or a shooter with 90% crit chances on high RSLs, body shots is just negating any crit hit to happen. You don't need sure shot/power strike on those classes either since those trait won't be applied on high RSLs

    Yes, if you only play RSL+3 and beyond.
    It still is great for outpost, those critical hits will blast away your opponents.
    It still is great for every mission below RSL+3 (+ 1 per pink, +1 if piercing on weapon).
    ____________________________
    mik81 said:


    Assaults is a class that can tank and control a crowd, so I'd think we don't have much room for that crit hit chances.

    Yeah, you might be on to something here, I'd much rather use the spot for something else.
    But still, throw in Sasha. Get charged and unleash the critical damage. Could work.
    ____________________________
    mik81 said:

    On warriors you may have crit chance, but in high RSL may be tricky to get 3 charge points to release a powerful crit attack. You may need there also some extra health or damage reduction...

    uhu, sasha can help you out though.
    ____________________________


    To summarize. Body-shots ruin critical chance for the end-game. Hands down.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    mik81 said:

    So I'd think we can also agree that you cannot crit when a body shoot happens.

    This was no secret, even verified by NG themselves.
    __________________________________________
    mik81 said:

    What I saw though is that if you do enough damage to kill the walker you don't get the "body shoot" in game text, and I'm guessing that was what confused me on first place.

    This is so annoying, It is almost impossible to test body-shot chances below your survivor level
    __________________________________________
    mik81 said:

    Don't badge a scout, hunter or a shooter with 90% crit chances on high RSLs, body shots is just negating any crit hit to happen. You don't need sure shot/power strike on those classes either since those trait won't be applied on high RSLs

    Yes, If you don't play outpost and don't play any mission below RSL +3 (+1 for piercing, +1 per pink star).
    __________________________________________
    mik81 said:

    Assaults is a class that can tank and control a crowd, so I'd think we don't have much room for that crit hit chances.

    I guess so, I'll probably use that room for something else.
    Still though, throw in Sasha, and you'll be critical hitting great mobs of walkers all the time. That's what I call crowd control.
    __________________________________________
    mik81 said:

    On warriors you may have crit chance, but in high RSL may be tricky to get 3 charge points to release a powerful crit attack.

    Sasha.
    __________________________________________

    To summarize...
    If you Don't play outpost and don't play Missions below RSL 3+, then critical chance is useless.
    Furthermore, critical chance is ruined for high level play.
    DLichtabernac淡水地鼠
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    @jimmorrison369 I agree. Although you probably won't need high critical chances to deal with enemies that are below RSL+3, so crit hit chance is very situational to maybe 1 warrior or 1 assault aoe that relays on crit and fast charge chances.

    In general damage seems better, and in many classes combined with +crit damage and/or mitigation health/dmg resistance.

    Outpost is a different game I mean, you may need a different set of survivors I was just talking about the PVE part of the game. So yes I was ignoring that part of the game.

    I can't do it right now, but I'm planning to test some body shot iteration and piercing. I have some low weapons with golden piercing that I could use, on low level survivors in scavenger missions. I'd think that's the best way to test it. You have to good survivors to keep the low one alive and he can shoot many times. If rounds get out of control, you flee and take hospital time just on that low survivor. I've even completed a few runs like that this weekend, so I'm just wasting "some time"
    jimmorrison369
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    mik81 said:

    @jimmorrison369 I agree. Although you probably won't need high critical chances to deal with enemies that are below RSL+3, so crit hit chance is very situational to maybe 1 warrior or 1 assault aoe that relays on crit and fast charge chances.

    Yup, usefulness of critical chance is a very small window yes.

  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited October 2017
    @mik81 @jimmorrison369 Power Strike is very useful in scout & warrior, it can increase their normal attack damage significantly.

    Level 6 power strike increase 43% damage while not moving, even without critical attack.


    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
    jimmorrison369tabernacmik81
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    edited October 2017
    @monsuta I know, you are right, my problem in general with melees is that in order to use that trait you need to be hit by a walker (not really but many times) at high RSL that is insta struggle or insta dead. Sure shot, and in general ranged vs melees is way better and easier to use, and most of the times more successful too.

    You could us it if interrupt wasn't affected by body shoots. You could also use it dodge wasn't affected by guaranteed crit chances from high lvl walkers... so someone really needs to get a hit in order for you to use it, you could have some shield bruiser there to get the hit, then your melee killers finish him.... but you can't kill 20 walkers like that... Idk I want to use melee but ranged survivors seems to be so much better... I would change that trait to remove the part: "have not moved" to "if you only move 1/2 of your movement". Then we could talk about more balance between classes.

    Anyway my point is that power strikes seems even more situational than sure shot... Is it good? Yes it is pretty good, can you use many times? I'm not sure about it...

    Edit: Pay to win weapons that add range to a melee weapon are the real game change here, but they are an option to p2w players only
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @mik81 That's where a meat shield bruiser come in handy, you can also move your scout & warrior to spawn block then attack the new spawn walker too. By using all melee team, you can no need to worry next spawn walker too if your scout kill enough walker to reduce spawn down to zero. It's very useful in some map. And they're good against armored too cause no body shot if their level is within non-bodyshot range.
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
    mik81jimmorrison369tabernacpsychwolf
  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    @Monsuta That's a really good tip. Thanks!!!
    tabernac
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited October 2017
    mik81 said:

    Posted on the other thread. By I used lvl 14 Daryl with silver accuracy on a scavenger mission. Walkers were lvl 21 and beyond. I did like 6-7 attacks, all of them were body shoots but 1.

    So for testing it you just need a low level survivor with as much crit chance as you can get (Daryl would be a good leader) and keep him alive on a scavenger mission with 2 other guys protecting it. At some point you flee and the low lvl survivor goes to thee hospital.

    I got 1 non body shot attack with him and I didn't have any piercing. Would anyone please try to replicate the experiment?
    @Monsuta @Dlich @TransmuteJun @jimmorrison369

    Not sure if it had anything to do with critical chance, but my level 22 Rufus just critical hit a level 19 armored without using any piercing weapon.
    http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/266749/#Comment_266749
    There is NO higher rarity when we use all legendary to craft the badge, we are being punished for having a chance to get LOWER rarity.
    This is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED & it's UNFAIR.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,922
    To be fair, this isn't new (for me at least). Armored don't have 100% body-shot on lower level.
    David_H79Monsuta
  • 淡水地鼠淡水地鼠 Member Posts: 278
    Monsuta is the man B)
    tabernacMonsutamik81
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