Founding players retiring due to nerfing/greed is really sad!

enigma12 · October 2017

It is incredibly sad when hoards of original players are leaving the game including tDiddy and one of the founders of our guild due to not enjoying the game anymore! So basically paying and ftp people have felt the effects of all of nerfing to the point of quitting! Ng’s new system will generate money but if enough people leave, their profit and list price will drop so they are going backwards! The game should be fun but it’s becoming a grind and increasingly annoying!

I wish NG realised or woke up to the fact that nerfing traits like wrestler, that a lot of people enjoyed using, only creates frustration. Personally, I don’t use melee people much and didn’t utilise the wrestler trait but I was looking forward to learning how which is gone now!

I am so sad my friends are leaving the game and after spending many thousands $$$, which my son nags me about, I am considering deleting the game as well!

zeeblack · October 2017

Goodbye @enigma12

Monsuta · October 2017

@zeeblack She didn't said she's quitting for sure too.

Captainslayer · October 2017

@enigma12 is in our guild and she loves us and we love her, the majority of us are only still playing because of each other she won't quit until we all decide enough is enough!! Which probably won't be to long maybe the nerfs in 2.9 will do it finally for us

Putchuco · October 2017

Someone's really gotta explain to me how a re-balanced wrestling makes the game less fun.
Less grind? yes
Less endless repeat missions that a monkey could play? yes
Less starz in challenge? potentially. Is this the major point?

The Distance is SO much more enjoyable that we don't have the easy way out with wrestling anymore.
We have to strategize again instead of just going through the motions of equipping wrestling gear on any available character and send 'em in.
The Distance with endless Wrestling was a farce.

Before the haters jump up and down again, the above is my opinion.
You are allowed to have your own, but so am I.

So, once someone got past their rage: what is so bad about the situation without endless wrestling?

sbf · October 2017

@Putchuco If you didn't notice, the wrestler nerf caused NG to add missions at the bottom of the challenge because there will be a cap at the top. You're allowed to think that starting at lvl14 in a challenge is more fun than using strategy at rsl31, but that puts you in the minority. And yes, that causes MORE grind. If you're unable to see how using wrestler at higher levels involves using strategy, then that's on you. What's more fun (and challenging), rsl14 or rsl31? 31 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And the rewards are better. If you think that a monkey could pick exactly where your survivor needs to be to not get swiped by the wrong walker while trying to kill the right one (unless you've forgotten, wrestler can only kill one walker per mission in the challenge), trust me, that monkey would get past the lower level missions much easier.

I understand that you want to keep your place on the leader board, but calling for a nerf of any trait that many people like is uncalled for. "I've got mine and I don't care if you get yours," is not a terribly flattering position to take.

Jaden · October 2017

Oh come on - people have explained that over and over. It doesn't open up new strategies that have not been there before, it just deletes one strategic element, like every nerf does.

How is getting fewer rewards fun or a new strategy?
How is having obsolete gear because wrestler is useless fun or a new strategy?
Less grind, yes, because many people will not be able to go as far as they did. But how does that equate to fun?

I have a question, though:
Who ever forced you to use wrestler? You could have chosen not to upgrade any gear with wrestler, problem solved.

Because there is no new strategy opened up now. Might be if enemy health would also carry over. Or if interrupt would work 100% of the time again. Or bruiser stun... But the way it is, the only thing it is doing is frustrating people.

I feel that any amount of explaining that to you will never help you understand, though, so I wonder why you even ask... Feels like rubbing salt into a wound, especially in a thread that is about a player being sad that other players stopped playing because of the endless nerfs.

Putchuco · October 2017

sbf said:
@Putchuco If you didn't notice, the wrestler nerf caused NG to add missions at the bottom of the challenge because there will be a cap at the top. You're allowed to think that starting at lvl14 in a challenge is more fun than using strategy at rsl31, but that puts you in the minority. And yes, that causes MORE grind. If you're unable to see how using wrestler at higher levels involves using strategy, then that's on you. What's more fun (and challenging), rsl14 or rsl31? 31 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And the rewards are better. If you think that a monkey could pick exactly where your survivor needs to be to not get swiped by the wrong walker while trying to kill the right one (unless you've forgotten, wrestler can only kill one walker per mission in the challenge), trust me, that monkey would get past the lower level missions much easier.

I understand that you want to keep your place on the leader board, but calling for a nerf of any trait that many people like is uncalled for. "I've got mine and I don't care if you get yours," is not a terribly flattering position to take.

It is quite sad that you think I went for a 'nerf' just so I can keep me spot on the Leaderboard, I could not care less.
If it were up to me you could all divide my starz among each other if we can get back to a strategic game, and away from a mindless game.

On the first point: sure, on some of the missions there was some strategy involved on how to use Wrestling, no one disputes that.
Awesome players have gotten to amazing levels in the game with it. Kudos.
Now, the entire NML community has to suffer from the mission maps now, that needed to be ramped up every time, just so 'the wrestlers' had something to do?

Putchuco · October 2017

@Jaden, I keep hearing the same attempt at an argument: 'Nobody forces you to use wrestling' is still not an argument.
'I want no speed limit on any street, if you don't like it, nobody forces you to go fast'.
Nope, everybody else has to adapt to the your speed, or in terms of the game adapt to special mission map design etc because of the simple existence of limitless wrestling.

Virtually nobody needed to use ANY strategy in the Distance in 2.7, because you could play through with lvl9 toons and wrestling gear.
Literally anyone can do that, there is no big secret. Those were the most boring weeks ever in this game.
Now, we have to go back and actually THINK of which guys to send in, their gear, upgrades, traits matter again.
No more safety net with wrestling.

ADPaq · October 2017

I'll address you questions from my perspective and explain why I still play.

Putchuco said:
Someone's really gotta explain to me how a re-balanced wrestling makes the game less fun.

I have never strategically used the wrestler trait in any game mode. So altering it didn't directly impact me, but I definitely side with those who feel the alteration was too severe.

Putchuco said:

Less grind? yes

Nothing NG has done since I started playing has actually reduced grind. I'm a F2Per and the grind in this game is easily one of the highest I've ever played in 35 odd years of gaming. I accept it for now, more on this later.

Putchuco said:

Less endless repeat missions that a monkey could play? yes

I'll assume you're referring to the Challenge mode, in which case I find the grind the same as it always has been.

Putchuco said:

Less starz in challenge? potentially. Is this the major point?

No. I've only recently started pushing for higher star counts since I joined Global Angels 2 and I have to say it's gone up drastically.

Putchuco said:

The Distance is SO much more enjoyable that we don't have the easy way out with wrestling anymore.

I disagree. The Distance is incredibly dull and unimaginative. Nothing NG has done since releasing it has changed it from being a boring slog. I've stated previously I only play 9 or 10 missions, which I can accomplish easily to obtain primarily badge fragments. Outside of this I have no desire whatsoever to play this game mode; it's simply too boring.

Putchuco said:

We have to strategize again instead of just going through the motions of equipping wrestling gear on any available character and send 'em in.
The Distance with endless Wrestling was a farce.

I never did this and I still find the Distance an incredibly unrewarding and dull game mode.

Putchuco said:

Before the haters jump up and down again, the above is my opinion.
You are allowed to have your own, but so am I.

As are my responses to you.

Putchuco said:

So, once someone got past their rage: what is so bad about the situation without endless wrestling?

I've stated that I have never really used the wrestler trait in any game mode so I'm not overly fussed by its alteration, however, a greater concern I have, and one I believe is shared by many, is that there is a continued push to negatively alter traits in the name of game balance, when in reality it seems they are much more likely being altered to protect NG's business model and revenue income.

Now, why do I still play a game that I admit is a colossal grind? Mainly because I want something to occupy my time when I have nothing better to do. I play on bus and train rides, when I'm at the airport waiting for my flight, when I'm at my kids' swimming lessons and I'm bored, etc.

sbf · October 2017

Putchuco said:

sbf said:
@Putchuco If you didn't notice, the wrestler nerf caused NG to add missions at the bottom of the challenge because there will be a cap at the top. You're allowed to think that starting at lvl14 in a challenge is more fun than using strategy at rsl31, but that puts you in the minority. And yes, that causes MORE grind. If you're unable to see how using wrestler at higher levels involves using strategy, then that's on you. What's more fun (and challenging), rsl14 or rsl31? 31 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And the rewards are better. If you think that a monkey could pick exactly where your survivor needs to be to not get swiped by the wrong walker while trying to kill the right one (unless you've forgotten, wrestler can only kill one walker per mission in the challenge), trust me, that monkey would get past the lower level missions much easier.

I understand that you want to keep your place on the leader board, but calling for a nerf of any trait that many people like is uncalled for. "I've got mine and I don't care if you get yours," is not a terribly flattering position to take.
It is quite sad that you think I went for a 'nerf' just so I can keep me spot on the Leaderboard, I could not care less.
If it were up to me you could all divide my starz among each other if we can get back to a strategic game, and away from a mindless game.

On the first point: sure, on some of the missions there was some strategy involved on how to use Wrestling, no one disputes that.
Awesome players have gotten to amazing levels in the game with it. Kudos.
Now, the entire NML community has to suffer from the mission maps now, that needed to be ramped up every time, just so 'the wrestlers' had something to do?

@Putchuco

LOL. It's unfortunate that you want to take away enjoyment of the game because you didn't like people getting as far as they do. No one ever forced you to use wrestler as a strategy, if you don't like it, just don't use it. But why do you want control over the game-play of other players? Wrestler is generally a last-resort strategy because it means a whole lot of healing time and it you get fewer stars from a mission from beating it.

Also, I still don't understand how you think starting at lvl14 with triple rounds starting at 19 is less grind in the challenge. Can you explain this? If you think that using wrestler is a part of grinding, then I'm not sure you have used it correctly. There's no grind involved in going up against walkers at rsl+8, it takes a whole lot of strategy and fire power and your campaign was based on putting a cap on how far players can get. Why is it important to you to have a limit for other people playing this game? It's a game...why champion an idea that is going to take enjoyment away from the majority of players?

enigma12 · October 2017

@Putchuco As I originally said, I don’t play a strategic game but when everyone upgrades and bases their games on traits and actually enjoys using certain traits which are useful, getting rid of these traits is insulting. All of the gear we choose to upgrade that had wrestler is useless now. I don’t understand releasing traits and classes and then changing them whenever they feel like it! We are at their mercy and it’s not fun!

Jaden · October 2017

Wow, that is the worst analogy I have ever come across. Speed limits are there for safety reasons. They are there to save lives. You can still choose to go slower, just not higher (if there is no minimum speed as well - which is also there for a reason, same safety issue, only the other way around).

But here is the heart of it - you simply care too much about what others were able to achieve. By using loads of gold, phones, money, by the way, so it has never been an option for everyone, only for people with the necessary means. It has never been an option for me.

And as I said, you will never understand it and will always bring up the same attempt of an argument which to me boils down to "I didn't like that others could achieve things using this strategy so it needed to be gone".

It was never about the strategy being too boring for you or else you would simply not have used it. Don't know if you are fooling yourself about this or trying to fool us... But whatever, let's be done with this topic. Be happy you got what you asked for and let the rest of us be mad without equating us with monkeys. Thanks.

Edd8 · October 2017

Wth is enjoyable about distance now?? Everyone who managed to beat it before the update will easily finish mission 18 then hit the wall with the 200k health fatties. Where the hell is that strategy you're talking about??? @Putchuco

Captainslayer · October 2017

I'm pretty sure the strategy is now to spend a sh*t tonne of money to get lots of pinks stars and legendary badges

Monsuta · October 2017

Putchuco said:
Someone's really gotta explain to me how a re-balanced wrestling makes the game less fun.
Less grind? yes
Less endless repeat missions that a monkey could play? yes
Less starz in challenge? potentially. Is this the major point?

The Distance is SO much more enjoyable that we don't have the easy way out with wrestling anymore.
We have to strategize again instead of just going through the motions of equipping wrestling gear on any available character and send 'em in.
The Distance with endless Wrestling was a farce.

Before the haters jump up and down again, the above is my opinion.
You are allowed to have your own, but so am I.

So, once someone got past their rage: what is so bad about the situation without endless wrestling?

I bet you're one of those happy player after 2.8 nerfed the wrestler, I've noticed that even though your total score is in global top 50 your weekly score is pretty low (about 1300- 1400) compare to those higher tier player (like tDiddy, SlickRick).
Last week me-a-mediocre-player-no-way-near-top-player scored a few stars higher than you without using wrestler at all, so I guessed you're one of those guy don't use wrestler in weekly challenge.
You did mentioned that "no way to get 1500+ without using wrestler"
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/260816/#Comment_260816

And you also did started a thread saying "Wrestling trait overpowered" a few months ago before calling out a wrestler nerf to the distance.
February 22
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/23149/wrestling-trait-overpowered/p1
September 13
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/29430/wrestling-needs-to-be-limited-and-the-time-is-now/p1

But then later you USED wrestler to beat the distance to claimed your forum badge
September 19
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/261826/#Comment_261826

I've found it very ironic.

tallinie · October 2017

> @Edd8 said:
> Wth is enjoyable about distance now??
> Everyone who managed to beat it
> before the update will easily finish
> mission 18 then hit the wall with the
> 200k health fatties. Where the hell is
> that strategy you're talking about??

Sorry to bump in. I agree that there are fundamental design issues with "renewed" Distance, meaning the hard difficulty version of it. I reached mission 19 and killed one fatty and injured two others down to 50K health but because I had not fled after killing one fatty, while freemen were still alive, I could not manage to kill remaining fatties on further retries due to frequent walker spawns.

At least there should be design change that when last member of team starts struggling (having gold wrestler suit), game does not end immediately but only after 3rd turn when survivor would actually die.

Also in some cases I am missing armor trait called "insta death" which would kill survivor immediately when starting to struggle. As if you were wrestling with spikey.

@Shteevie Do you think you could make some changes to game play?

DeadBeat · October 2017

@Putchuco
WHY?
Why do you feel the need to spam & derail someone’s heartfelt post about being sad that they’re losing friends due to ANOTHER nerfing.

You got exactly what YOU wanted so instead of rubbing salt in the wound & childishly na na na naing be gracious in your victory!

I will never understand Why it bothered you so much that others found joy using this strategy?
You say it has nothing to do with Leaderboards or star counts but strategy? Yeah right!

What may be enjoyable to one may not be to others.
I understand that you didn’t find wrestler enjoyable & I totally respect that. How you Play & enjoy your hard earned free time is your choice.

in this game no one is forced to use a strategy they don’t like (or find too hard to utilise).
There are plenty to chose from (& plenty of kind people willing to help/teach)

But, Some people did enjoy using the wrestling trait & I respect that too.

We all play the game however we want to get our fun & enjoyment. Personally I find it very mean spirited to try to put a stop to other peoples fun especially when what they are doing has absolutely no impact on others.

We love you @enigma12

Monsuta · October 2017

> @Putchuco said:
> It is quite sad that you think I went for a 'nerf' just so I can keep me spot on the Leaderboard, I could not care less.

http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/7316/whats-up-with-some-people-changing-country-to-be-1#latest
"What's up with some people changing country to be #1 ??"
"Really? Switching country, so you can claim the #1 spot? LOL"

Very indeed LOL

Edd8 · October 2017

@Monsuta nailed it

Teeceezy · October 2017

Keep it civil and constructive. Attack the argument, not the person.

Governator · October 2017

Sorry @Teeceezy. Emotions are still raw after having the wrestler trait nerfed. It was like that Christmas when my dad, an early model T-100, gave me a 40-Watt Phased Plasma Rifle and I was able to blast away throughout the neighborhood indiscriminately. But then he took it away a few months later and replaced with a 200-shot Daisy Red Rider BB gun with a compass in the stock and told me it would open up new strategies. I shot his eye out with it. It was an awkward Thanksgiving to say the least.

Bill_ZRT · October 2017

Putchuco said:
Someone's really gotta explain to me how a re-balanced wrestling makes the game less fun.

Because fun is a subjective thing. I might love bungee jumping and you might be scared of heights. I don't understand what some people don't get about that.

Teeceezy · October 2017

That sucks @Governator, I'm sorry to hear that. You'll be back though.

Putchuco · October 2017

@Jaden it appears you have absolutely no desire to actually look at the presented arguments. Fine, but pls don't just whilly-nilly throw out accusations.

@Monsuta what were you trying to show by your incredible collection of posts?
That I have used wrestling? Was that a secret?
That I don't enjoy using it? Also no secret.
That I stopped using it in the challenge? no secret there either
That I tried beating the Distance which was only possible using wrestling? Do I need a permission slip before i can use it?

@Bill_ZRT I am still trying for someone spending a fraction of the time they are spending witch-hunting me (or anyone else who wanted wrestling limited ang the game re-balanced) and more on actually explaining what was so great about it. Must be the extra starz and the perceived advantage in the challenge then.

Back to the original post: why would someone (highly regarded player(s) quit the game now with v2.8?
Because of the re-balanced wrestling? really?

Bill_ZRT · October 2017

Putchuco said:

@Bill_ZRT I am still trying for someone spending a fraction of the time they are spending witch-hunting me (or anyone else who wanted wrestling limited ang the game re-balanced) and more on actually explaining what was so great about it. Must be the extra starz and the perceived advantage in the challenge then.

Some people found it fun and challenging... that doesn't mean you have to, but some people found it enjoyable.

Also, it's not a 'witch hunt' if someone is respectfully disagreeing with you. You get to post your opinion, other people get to post theirs. That's how it works... disagreeing with you doesn't make it a witch hunt.

Terminates · October 2017

A reminder of what it feels like every time we get a nerf lolol

Shut_Up · October 2017

> @Bill_ZRT said:
>
>
>
> Some people found it fun and challenging...

FUN is the key

Muzz · October 2017

I didn't see this post before (I've just posted a fairly lengthy rant on the same topic!).

As I said in that post - strategy and skill is now out of the window. The only viable strategies now are either Sasha or Abe as leader plus 2 ranged. That's it. Nothing else will work at high levels! This change has completely unbalanced the game and it is much much poorer for it.

The game is supposed to be about having fun. Having all of my armour rendered useless, and all my warriors, scouts and bruisers rendered useless, does not seem very fun at all........

Jaden · October 2017

@Putchuco

"It appears that you have absolutely no desire to actually look at the presented arguments. Fine, but pls don't just whilly-nilly throw out accusations." <-- Right back to you, unopened and unused.

I looked at the arguments and my assessment of them is that they sounded selfish back then and they still sound selfish now. You didn't like using it and wanted it to be changed despite the fact that many players enjoyed using the trait. What did I get wrong about that? Did or did you not want it to be nerfed? (And yes, I remember you asked for another solution and did not 100% got what you asked for...)

People have explained to you times and times again what they liked about Wrestler but you don't seem to get it. Why can't you just let it go? Is it your inability to understand the other side? But you "won" so why not just enjoy your "victory" and move on?

Can't you accept that people have a different opinion? Or at least have given it some time for people to cool down now that it actually happened? Or have opened up your own thread about it?

This thread has not been about you, no one accused you of anything or brought your name up. It has been about @enigma12 mourning the loss of some gaming friends.

No one would have posted anything addressing you had you not posted in here what you have posted. And you must have known people would react to your post...

Andrius · October 2017

I just want to say:

My heart is very ache right now and properly wanted to break down when some of my best friends and contributor to this game is about to quit @OneLessTitan @Mystique ......I just don't know how to deal with it. My time is pretty near as well. Many great knowledge players will properly follow......There are a lot of people is feeling that way when the FUN is taken away and their friends are quitting.

Thank you for speaking up guys @Jaden @Muzz and greatly feel your pain @enigma12.

I really don't know how else to say it to NG. Speechless at this moment. I said my piece prior to the update.

Welcome.

Founding players retiring due to nerfing/greed is really sad!

Comments

Welcome.

Quick Links

Founding players retiring due to nerfing/greed is really sad!

Comments