How Important is Marksman?

I am looking for an Assault and was wondering how important the Marksman trait is now that we have badges. It use to be a deal breaker for me with all ranged survivors but now I am wondering if other traits like luck and Iron skin are more valuable now.

Also, does the Marksman trait give you a percentage boost based off "base damage" or "Regular/Normal damage"? Does it increase percent damage based on badges as well?

Comments

  • xxarea83xxxxarea83xx Member Posts: 221
    My top traits for assault (situational dependent, of course) are Luck, Revenge, Sure Shot, Dodge, and Ruthless. If its a survivor meant for outpost, Iron Skin ranks above Marksman, as does Bullet Dodge. Then again, the extra damage can be useful there too.

    The badges can also help make up for the lack of assault damage, for sure.

    You'll get a truckload of opinions here. This one is mine
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

    IGN: xxarea83xx
    Guild: Anti Walkers
    Player Level: 68
    black_nines
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    @ApexPred
    I think there's info in this thread which might be of use to you
    http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/30062/critical-hit-damage

    If you don't want to read that much, I'll try to answer your specific questions to the best of my ability, but there are more knowledgeable individuals in that long thread.

    I believe the marksman trait only boosts your survivor's base damage. That's base damage before badges AND not including any damage from whatever weapon they're equipped with. So it doesn't provide any extra boost if you equip a better weapon OR add badges. I'm pretty sure the marksman trait applies first, and in fact becomes your new "base" damage.

    Hope I'm right so as not to cause any confusion, lol
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    Marksman is negotiable for me now that there are badges. I believe marksman applies to base damage, not total damage. Noticed @DoTak posted before I got done with this post and everything there is what I understand.

    For an assault I'm a fan of: sure-shot, marksman, iron skin, dodge, luck, ruthless, and defensive stance. Iron skin is non-negotiable for me. One thing to consider for assault is that sure-shot can reduce body-shots, so that might interfere with charging up with Sasha as leader.

    I stay away from vigilant and revenge, since the assault class's damage is already low. I also stay away from bullet dodge since I don't care about outpost defense or the small percentage of missions with ranged freemen. Ruthless is great since the charged attack isn't a guaranteed crit attack.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    DoTak said:


    I believe the marksman trait only boosts your survivor's base damage. That's base damage before badges AND not including any damage from whatever weapon they're equipped with. So it doesn't provide any extra boost if you equip a better weapon OR add badges. I'm pretty sure the marksman trait applies first, and in fact becomes your new "base" damage.

    Hope I'm right so as not to cause any confusion, lol

    Almost correct.
    It does only increase your survivor base damage, not weapon or anything else.
    But if you have a %damage badge, that percentage does go over the extra damage from lethal.
    simple example:

    survivor main damage (not the weapon): 1000 damage
    marksman: 15%
    extra damage 150

    Badge% damage: 10%
    extra damage lethal
    150 + 15 = 165
    DoTak
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    @jimmorrison369
    I was hoping you'd show up! :D
    jimmorrison369
  • SmittySpivey3SmittySpivey3 Member Posts: 324
    I hate sure shot on assaults because I neaely always find my guy having to move so its out.I'd like marksman because It at least occurs for every turn. There is no chance of marksman. Until 2.9 maybe.
    Dodkong
  • 淡水地鼠淡水地鼠 Member Posts: 278
    edited October 2017
    it used to be a must-have trait, but now its just so so
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    edited October 2017
    15% Marksman is roughly 6% important. =) Better than nothing.
    Here you go:
    [Analysis] Marksman, Strong, Lethal: The actual impact
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    edited October 2017
    On Assault I'd say it's still must have.
    Iron Skin, Dodge, Lucky, Marksman and 5th could be whatever you like.
    David_H79JackBauerbigbeanoAval0n
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    ApexPred said:

    I am wondering if other traits like luck and Iron skin are more valuable now

    They have been and will be most valuable traits, along with Dodge.
  • Edd8Edd8 Member Posts: 135
    > @PR0DJ said:
    > On Assault I'd say it's still must have.
    > Iron Skin, Dodge, Lucky, Marksman and 5th could be whatever you like.

    Not iron skin , badges will grant the 80% damage reduction also the armor will help.

    I know it's hard to get but so are tokens.
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    edited October 2017
    Edd8 said:


    Not iron skin , badges will grant the 80% damage reduction also the armor will help

    With Iron Skin on survivor you basically have free badge slot for Damage and Health.
    jimmorrison369tabernacpaintbeast
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    Edd8 said:

    I know it's hard to get but so are tokens.

    You don't need tokens to get Iron Skin, just get survivor with Iron Skin, Dodge and Lucky and try to get Marksman. =)
  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 293
    A related question since we are discussing damage numbers here - how do damage badges affect a critical shot?
    @jimmorrison369 you seem to have a pretty good handle on these things.
    To clarify my question:
    Say my survivor with weapon has 1000 damage. A crit shot is generally speaking 1.5x normal damage with some variation, so for simplicity say a crit shot is 1500 damage. If I equip my survivor with a 10% damage increase badge, normal damage would go up to 1100. Does crit damage use the new "normal" and be roughly 1650?
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    @jbuoy
    I'm still not out on that subject.
    If you have
    1000
    And badge + 100
    Then no. It will be 1600, not 1650

    If you have +10%, I'm less sure about it.
    There is still some stuff I need to test for that.

    Don't realy have had the time to figure that out.
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    edited October 2017
    @jbuoy
    If only +X damage, then there is a bug (incorrect formula for crits):
    Charged / Critical attack BUG. Now with Badges!

    If only +X%, then it doesn't matter in which order it multiplies, result will be D*1.X*1.5
    (which is equal to D*1.5*1.X).

    If both - I haven't checked, done enough checking..
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    If Pr0dj is correct.
    Then it will be 1650 in your example.
    But only when %badges, not for +badges.
  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 293
    edited October 2017
    @jimmorrison369 @PR0DJ @Monsuta
    My question at it's most basic was "do damage badges affect critical damage, or do they only affect normal damage". Based on the link to the thread @PR0DJ created, the "bug report" is the exact scenario I was inquiring about. And based on @Teeceezy 's response there, critical attack damage does not count badge damage boosts and is working as intended. Seems like BS if that is the case. But then I suppose the critical damage badges would be pointless if you can get a damage badge to duplicate it and allow better normal damage as well.

    Thanks to all for the efforts!
    jimmorrison369
  • PR0DJPR0DJ Member Posts: 834
    jbuoy said:

    Seems like BS

    It is.

    DBonescrambert_nec
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    @jbuoy .
    Your question isn't as simple as you think it to be.
    What appears to be the case is this:
    +Damage badges don't add to critical.
    %Damage badges do.

    So if you ask: Do damage badges add to critical. Yes and no.

    I'm not sure about how it works. But I do know %damage badges do add to critical in some way.
  • The_JerThe_Jer Member Posts: 293
    Hmmm, well then that makes even less sense. But I guess NG gonna NG
    jimmorrison369paintbeastbigbeano
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited November 2017
    @jimmorrison369 @PR0DJ I can't figured out how is the calculation of critical damage after added critical damage badge, + damage badge & % damage badge.

    The normal damage did checked out correctly.
    Min Normal Damage (2571+242)*1.14*0.8=2565
    Max Normal Damage (2571+242)*1.14*1.2=3848

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_L5BohVqIAScWRTcWJtWnFNcVU




    Updated correct calculation.
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    edited November 2017
    Edit.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    @Monsuta
    (3207−242×1.14)×(1.25+0.16)+242×1.14=4409

    So you take with the %badge, but not the +badge.

    Subtract 242*1.14
    Multiply by critical (1.25 + 0.16)
    Then add 242.14 again.

    4409 is the near exact middle of your min and max. So I assume it's close to the average.

    Not at home, so I'll take a good look maybe later.
    But I feel confident about above calculation.
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @jimmorrison369 It's off in critical damage.

    (((2571*(1.0+0.16))+242)*1.14=3676
    (((2571*(1.5+0.16))+242)*1.14=5141

    But from the samples was:
    Min Critical Damage 3575
    Max Critical Damage 5230
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    Monsuta said:

    @jimmorrison369 It's off in critical damage.

    (((2571*(1.0+0.16))+242)*1.14=3676
    (((2571*(1.5+0.16))+242)*1.14=5141

    But from the samples was:
    Min Critical Damage 3575
    Max Critical Damage 5230

    (((2571*(1.25+0.16))*0.8+242)*1.14=3582
    (((2571*(1.25+0.16))*1.2+242)*1.14=5235

    Seems the entire outcome of critical is multiplied by 0.8 for minimum, 1.2 for maximum.
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,065
    Or
    This seems even more likely.

    (((2571*(1.25+0.16))+242)*1.14*0.8=3527
    (((2571*(1.25+0.16))+242)*1.14*1.2=5290
    Monsuta
  • MonsutaMonsuta Member Posts: 1,168
    @jimmorrison369 So the variable was calculated at the final.
    jimmorrison369
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