FYI Humans needing 2 shots to kill is intentional!

Helio · February 2016

I felt this deserved it's own thread for FYI purposes.

Human's needing 2 hits is intentional! There is a thread explaining the bleeding condition and this is what OldGoth had to say

OldGoth said:

Essentially the bleeding state is a second health bar, and it works the same way for your guys and the enemies. If it helps, you might think of the first (green) bar as a shield. When that's away, you get to deal the real damage (the red bar).

So there we have it... all Humans need 2 hits minimum to die.

khajiit · February 2016

What about the fact that a level 3 human is almost one shotting my level 11 legendary with 487 hp. That can't be normal.

Helio · February 2016

@khajiit Very good question... I wish I had an answer.

AysatyoPet · February 2016

@khajiit that needs a new thread. And perhaps a screenshot or video would be helpful to validate your question..

SlayerSect · February 2016

I remember reading about the bleeding for us from one of the mods, , and I thought this is what was going on for human foes as well. Makes sense.

blynknz · February 2016

Makes sense that the human targets are harder than walkers.
But it should be the same when they attack us.
*I haven't encountered this yet when a low level human has done a ridiculous amount of damage.

C_Lloyd · February 2016

The two makes sense to me as it's the same for our of survivors who have one health bar to go through and then once put in a struggle and saved you have a second health bar. So it's the same with human enemies other than they don't have the struggle phase.

As far as the damage they do, that may be a little high but I mean if you had a level 3 legendary survivor with level 6 gear equipt you could do a sizeable amount of damage so maybe it's based on the same principle? Could be tweaked a little though, we shall see once we get to higher level missions and see how much harder they get.

blynknz · February 2016

Maybe they show as level 3, but they are actually equivalent to the survivors you use.

javajnkie · February 2016

It makes sense that the bleeding is kind of the same as our guys in a struggle. Except I think that if a level 3 survivor got hit by a level 18 walker, the survivor might be a goner in one hit. And given how leveled up my equipment is, maybe a more apt comparison would be my fully-upgraded level 3 survivor against a fatty (yes, I'm comparing my survivor with lvl 18 equipment to a tough walker here).
It's been a while, but I don't remember my lvl 3 survivors making it past even level 10 walkers. I could be wrong...

I think @blynknz is on to something: despite the levels shown on the raiders, they are at least equivalent to the survivors we use. This would address something I worried about, which was if it took two hits for my high level survivors to take out a lvl 3 raider, how would new players with low level survivors be able to play?

Worded like that, it seems fair. To make everyone stop complaining, perhaps NG could adjust the human attackers displayed level so it reflects their actual level. Then again, nothing would appease everyone, so I'm not sure any change could stop the complaining entirely.

As an aside, kudos to @Teeceezy and crew for not quitting amidst all the arrows being tossed their way the last few weeks. I'm not saying the glitches haven't been frustrating for us, just that it can't always be easy to log on here knowing what's waiting for you.

ShadowRising · February 2016

i am up to lvl 8, in the challenges, i noticed the damage humans do shortly before that , but yea just had a warrior take one of my survivors with full health down below half in 1 hit lol, oh and my guys are lvl 15 with bad azz gears

AysatyoPet · February 2016

Human vs human.. don't you guys think we also got 2nd health bar? If a high level human npc hit us which makes our hp reduce to zero, we would be in a bleeding state, and thus, have another full health bar. So the 2 hit that the human npc got also applies to our survivors.. but that is only if human enemies hit us.. walkers hitting us wont get us into bleeding state..

SlayerSect · February 2016

Has anyone had their survivors go into the bleeding state yet?

If so, but you survived, were they considered severely hurt with the 2hr+ wait?

Lawdog · February 2016

Good point @javajnkie

Putting all aside,a walker at that level-should consume a human of that level in one bite.

jester · February 2016

You always double tap in the zombie apocalypse.

[Deleted User] · February 2016

It has been said by the devs that once we get to that second health bar it is considered beyond being in a struggle. So 2 stars would be lost and yes heavy damage. I hope I am remembering that correctly. @Teeceezy am I remembering that correctly?

Zeena · February 2016

I agree way to too much damage is done by humans half of my level 13 legendary is taken by a level 3 human.! Went from green bar to red in one hit! I think the devs are trying to make it more challenging. But cmon, adding the humans into the mix already makes it more difficult in the first place, letting humans have the power to destroy our top level survivors in two hits isn't challenging, it's just unfair.

Capleton · February 2016

jester said:
You always double tap in the zombie apocalypse.

According to your quote: they killed only one human...Bill fucking Murray. Without a double tap.

Neil_J · February 2016

A lvl 9 human still dies in 2 hits from a lvl 15 hunter.
As for the damage they do in return? I have no idea. I don't get close enough for them to hit me!

And they attack walkers too - and it holds walkers up 2 moves when they stop to eat a dead one.

JAG · February 2016

insanityx3 said:
It has been said by the devs that once we get to that second health bar it is considered beyond being in a struggle. So 2 stars would be lost and yes heavy damage. I hope I am remembering that correctly. @Teeceezy am I remembering that correctly?

I think I read that post too, but didn't find it in a quick search now. Anyone has the link?

I did however try it out, one of mine was bleeding and I administrated bandage before exiting. I was rewarded 2 stars, that is "no injury" was taken away but the "no struggle" was rewarded. (in this particular example, no guarantees given)

SlayerSect said:
Has anyone had their survivors go into the bleeding state yet?

If so, but you survived, were they considered severely hurt with the 2hr+ wait?

Yes, it seems as if he did need extensive healing in camp as well. I think that makes sense.

AysatyoPet · February 2016

http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/3168/whats-the-new-bleeding-condition

LadyAquila · February 2016

javajnkie said:
...To make everyone stop complaining, perhaps NG could adjust the human attackers displayed level so it reflects their actual level....

This is what I'd like to see as well. I don't mind the raiders being tough to kill. This increases the challenge of the missions and I like adjusting to new strategy. But they shouldn't say level 3 and then do so much damage to my legendary level 15s. I should be able to hit them, take their hit (with minimal damage 'cause they are a level 3), and then kill them on my next turn. If they can inflict that much damage, their numbers should reflect it. Then I would know not to leave my guys vulnerable next to them.

zoson · February 2016

I think you'll all just get used to this and a change won't be necessary.

kryptonix · February 2016

@zoson +1

basiaMD · February 2016

As long as damage from raiders accurately reflects that from a commmon/uncommon survivor with common/uncommon gear from the corresponding level then it is appropriate. If it is to truly reflect living on living combat then raiders should be governed by the same rules as our survivors. That being said, I don't want to face range weapon raiders in these missions because it would be very hard not to take damage...

PapaSmurf · February 2016

@baslaMD I'm with you, Ranged enemies will be tough. The one advantage we currently have is we can use our ranged survivors to take out the bad guys before they get too close. Also, interrupt does seem to work on them if you use overwatch.

Neil_J · February 2016

I've just met some lvl 13 humans - still a 2 shot kill from my lvl 15 hunters, but they sure hit harder.
Best to stay out of their reach!

JAG · February 2016

Stayfrosty said:
I did this Challenge for the first time, 2 days ago, I began Playing this game about 1 1/2 month ago. I don't know how it was before, but when your new at this game and learning how the diff walkers hits affect your stats it was wierd to try the Challenge mode out. Nothing I learned about the game i valid anymore.

Thats why I'm not gonna play Challenge mode before I'v been farmin' 7-8 mill tomatos and sheriff stars and upgrade to the max.

Hi @Stayfrosty ! Welcome to the forum!

If this was the first "weekly challenge" you tried I understand it was a new feeling. As you may have seen in the forum the new "human enemies" are meant to be a fresh change. But even if they are tough, I think you should not be too afraid of trying them out. If you stay in non-deadly missions there's not that big penalty of taking a loss, even if you believe the only benefit of going challenge missions instead of other missions is this chance to get to know the Raiders.

That said, the challenge maps usually change every week. I'm assuming this will happen again so if you try the challenge next week it would likely be maps that are more familiar, filled with the usual friendly Walkers instead (possibly some more hot than others).

Just wanted to tell you, so you don't make your decisions based on too little information.

lobofett · February 2016

ok so i played on my daughters lvl3 characters vs level 3 humans, have to hit the humans 6 times each, they hit hers characters 2 times, and hers die.. this means equal levels means no chance....also low levels cant really play at all

zoson · February 2016

It is called a *challenge* ... Also someone with only level 3 characters has better ways to spend their time in the game.

Sipher07 · February 2016

think they just want to make it force more complex actions. Actually the natural way to force more actions is to kill the person and instead of the bleeding and second health bar nonsense, the dead person just reanimated and then you fight a regular zombie. This way, it's more natural and also solves the complexity of any interaction with human characters - they have flexibility to hit hard but u can kill and then reanimate

Scorch · February 2016

My biggest problem is that after a low level human gets shot, he starts bleeding at the same hit-point level from before. If a human has 150 health and I hit him with a shooter with 900 hp, then the human should die, period.

He shouldn't be in the "blood" stage with another 150 hit points to die. Once the human gets to 500 hit points on later rounds, then my 900 shooter can't kill him with one shot.

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FYI Humans needing 2 shots to kill is intentional!

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