FYI Badges of 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% don't exist

Yes, like you heard don't exist - what are you saying? if I've badges with those values - Yes, technically they exist I have them too but when you make a set that give to those badges the bonus of 20% you'll notice that

-The badges of 5% don't give you any bonus when has to give you 1%.
-The badges of 10% give you 1% instead of 2%.
-The badges of 15% give you 2% instead of 3%.
-The badges of 20% give you 3% instead of 4%.
(I added screen shots of all those examples)

I'm wondering why? Probably you at this point too, well the brilliant answer is coming from a support member (I added an screen shot of it too) what you and I actually have is a badge between 9.51 - 9.58 who was rounded to 10% (yeah you can laugh with me because that don't make sense) by his explanation a badge of 10% behind the scene is 9.51x1.20=11.412 so rounded to 11 any number after 9.58 would be rounded to 12 so all my badges of 10% are actually any value between 9.51 - 9.58 hilarious (the same apply to 5%, 15% and 20%).

So back to my premise, the badges of 5, 10, 15 and 20% don't exist.
This thread is just to let know what is happening, I know it will not be fixed because "is working as intended" my only question (which will not be answered) for @Teeceezy and @Shteevie would be why continue giving badges of 5, 10, 15 and 20 % if they don't give you the bonus correctly?
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Comments

  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    Not all badges are created equal I guess. When I pay $1.99 for 24 gas is it really $1.99? :hushed:

    Great post @mimica thanks for sharing!!

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  • HarurunHarurun Member Posts: 40
    Stupid game design.
    Makes you wonder, does the weapon damage & armor health in the shop were also have decimal but rounded too?
    Not just only people buy the pitchfork would think it's the same damage as other same level & rarity scout weapon, but the main reason was all the gears have decimal but was rounded higher value, so NG can get way the refund once people know the gears they bough with real money like the Morgan Staff was actually rounded too?
  • ShayHaShayHa Member Posts: 299
    what are those and how to get? (im new)
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    > @ShayHa said:
    > what are those and how to get? (im new)

    I'm guessing you mean badges. You need to be at council lvl15 to build Scavenge Building and Crafting Building.
    You'll then begin to find Fragments and Components which are used to craft badges.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
  • DonCoquiDonCoqui Member Posts: 582
    This is what I heard NG say...

    "I have good and bad news for you. First the good, WE KNOW so you don't have to worry about a thing. Thanks for letting us know our arithmetic is flawed though. Much appreciated. The bad news is math is very complicated... particularly multiplication... very very complicated. It's much easier to round up than to round down. Sucks to be you doesn't it?"
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  • Nick37Nick37 Member Posts: 455
    TJS said:

    > @ShayHa said:

    > what are those and how to get? (im new)



    I'm guessing you mean badges. You need to be at council lvl15 to build Scavenge Building and Crafting Building.

    You'll then begin to find Fragments and Components which are used to craft badges.

    I would not bother with the scavenge buildings if I were you, I wish I hadn’t. The whole badge system is seriously flawed, over complicated and a huge rip off and causes me so much frustration with badges constantly turning out at a lower or equal value, NEVER higher. This game is supposed to be enjoyable not frustrating & annoying.
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  • Nick37Nick37 Member Posts: 455
    I always stick to the same colour and been crafting since the badge event yesterday.
    Crafted all blue twice, both came out green.
    Crafted all green six times, 1 green, 5 brown.
    Crafted all brown seven times, 3 brown, 4 grey.
    Crafted all grey 5 times, all grey.
    Either I am extremely unlucky or my game has a bug, I can’t believe after crafting 20 badges that NONE came out higher,
    “Aloha Snackbar” Guild No Mans Land.
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  • mimicamimica Member Posts: 345
    Maybe all badges are rounded to a number higher but behind the scene his value is low, here other example badge of 9% with the bonus will be 9x1.20= 10.8 rounded to 11% (based on the explanation of the support member) but this not happen only give you 10%, so I guess that the real value is something between 8.51 - 8.74 who was rounded to 9%

    All this behind the scene system don't make sense to me but I'm used to the NG logic.
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    @mimica resurrecting this because I and a fellow guildmate had noticed the same. The survivor detail screens seem to have a display bug which improperly calculates the boost only for multiples of 5. For percentage values with a multiple of five, only a 10% boost appears to be applied, while for any other percentages it is 20%. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to affect the actual damage and health stat calculations - those show the right figures for all my toons even when they have x5% badges showing the wrong boost.

    @kaz, @Shteevie , I can't fathom what odd arithmetic causes the survivor display screens to get the boost wrong *only* for x5%. I realise it's only a display bug but there's enough paranoia and discontent about badges already and this surely doesn't help.
    mimica
  • ShteevieShteevie Staff Posts: 1,335
    I'll copy this over into a bug for test to try and reproduce, but screens would help if you have them. It sounds very detail-oriented, so knowing exactly where people see the issue to occur is going to be very helpful here.

    I don't know why the system would treat multiples of five differently. We are rounding to nearest number for display purposes, because of course you will end up with odd and finicky fractions when applying percentage bonuses to any whole number. However, it should treat all possible values in the same way, so what you describe is very odd indeed.
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  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    @Boukephalos

    It's not a visual bug. % badges are rounded up or down to the nearest full percentage.

    A 10% Badge could truly be anything from 9.5% to 10.49%

    Confusing but apparently that's how it is.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    edited May 2018
    @TJS The math doesn't add up. It also doesn't explain that the survivor screen shows final damage/health figures which agree with the proper boost and disagree with the displayed boost.
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402

    Thread + mind = ah hell
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  • mik81mik81 Member Posts: 360
    edited May 2018
    All I can say here is that when I used @jimmorrison369 formula to calculate damage, including damage badges, bonus set, bonus badge, etc... it worked fine for me, it calculate it with all the decimals even though for visualization purposes they are rounded up or down.

    Although I took the values from the badge building and not what is showed on the survivor screen, since there is already rounded
    titusBoukephalos
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    edited May 2018
    @mik81 Precisely. @TJS , here's a direct example of that explanation just being wrong:Michonne (level 20, epic) on whom I have two 10% badges. The badges screen shows them as both only boosting to 11%. But her survivor screen also shows her total damage output as 3449. Now, if I use @OneLessTitan's data for base traits, add in Michonne's base damage boost, then do the calculation based on those badges being exactly 10% (0.1) and getting a 20% boost to 12% (0.12), I also arrive a final damage value of 3449.

    ((Base damage 1123 * Strong 3 1.1) + (Weapon 1065 * Silver Lethal 1.1) + (Flat damage badge 245 * Set boost 1.2)) * (1 + (%Damage badges (0.1 + 0.1) * Set boost 1.2)) = 3348.99

    So, there is no way for those badges to have a value of anything other than precisely 10% (0.1) and be that close. If their actual value were high enough to round up to 10% on the Craftman's screen but low enough that the boosted value could be rounded down to 11% on the survivor badges screen (a value of 9.57 would round up to 11.4) the final damage would add up to 3321, 28 points adrift.

    So something on the survivor screen is lying to us. I'm betting on the survivor badges display, because the badges and the final damage/health stats agree perfectly with the damage calculation every time except when a percentage badge is (before the set boost) a precise multiple of 5.

    @Shteevie Here are the details for my incarnation of Michonne to prove the mismatch between the badges and the stats:

    Michonne's stats

    Original badge values

    Michonne's badges with set boost


    TJS
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    Heh.

    Following a hunch, I checked all the percentage badges I have in sets. It turns out that the boosted value is always rounded down, not to the nearest integer. For example, my Morgan has a 19% DR badge, which boosts to 22.8 which you would expect to round to 23% but it's displayed as 22% on his badges screen. That's a floor function being applied, rather than a rounding function.

    So...

    I suspect a bodged floor function which always rounds down to the integer below the given value. Even when the given value (the boosted badge value) is an integer. So we're seeing unexpected rounding figures for a lot of percentage badges but it's only been noticed for multiples of 5 because they are so obvious (a 20% boost to a multiple of 5 is always a whole number, from which the borked function is subtracting a big fat 1).

    The other possible explanation is that all the percentage value badges are not really integer values and that all of mine are at the low end of the range. I do not believe that to be likely (see no value to NG in doing that with the percentage badges and the disparity in the displayed damage/health stats argues against it).

    @TJS , I suspect the "fractions being rounded to whole numbers" story came from NG support staff who misunderstood what they had heard from devs. I believe the %badges really do have integer values, that the rounding for display purposes is done to boosted badges on the survivor badges display screen, not on the Craftsman screen and that somebody in support misunderstood and miscommunicated.
    mimicaTJS
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 1,934
    edited May 2018
    Interesting. A long time ago I had a badge that got rounded up.

    Funny how this stuff is still weird as hell.

    Edit(it was a 14.4% showing as 15%.
    TJS
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    Well, if I'm right it's just an annoying display bug - albeit one that will have mislead and disappointed a lot of people. If I'm wrong, it would be nice to see the NG explanation.
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402

    Interesting. A long time ago I had a badge that got rounded up.

    Funny how this stuff is still weird as hell.

    Edit(it was a 14.4% showing as 15%.

    How does one know the exact amount?
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  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263

    Interesting. A long time ago I had a badge that got rounded up.

    Funny how this stuff is still weird as hell.

    Edit(it was a 14.4% showing as 15%.

    How does one know the exact amount?
    He means the exact set-boosted amount (which assumes that we trust the original, unboosted value to be accurate, which I do). So 12% * 1.2 = 14.4%
    jimmorrison369
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    Ah-ha! The (s)low many on the totem pole gets it!
    Descensus in cuniculi cavum
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    Concordia

  • mimicamimica Member Posts: 345
    @Boukephalos agree with you, I've so many badges and in the screen never rounded up is always down
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    @Boukephalos

    Nice work. I'm still confused as to what exactly is going on with this.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
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