Real solution to the challenge grind
TheRealSavage
Member Posts: 64
Props to NG for trying out the ultimate challenge idea to ease the grind for end gamers. But so far not a single solution will work for everyone. The newer players want to play more rounds, the end gamers want less. After some long thoughts here's my solution that WILL work for everyone.
But first, let's look at the root of the problem. Because until this is fixed, no ultimate challenge or any modification to the challenge format will work for everyone.
Currently the gap between the number of rounds played is too vastly different between different levels of players. Let's just do a comparison between a player with level 20 survivors with no pink stars vs level 23 survivors with 3 pink stars. The ASL (actual survivor level) would be level 20 vs level 26. Player B would get 6 more RSLs with no body shots. That is at least 18 rounds more if I'm not counting the tier 4s at RSL 30+. 18 more rounds is at least 108 more maps, or 648 more gas if you don't redo anything. That's INSANE!!!
This is only a comparison between mid level players and end gamers. If you throw in the players that are not even at level 20 yet the gap is even larger. That's why no matter what kind of changes to the challenge right now it will always ALIENATE a part of the player base.
So what's the solution?
It's simple, the 1st step is to level the amount of play time between ALL of the players as much as possible.
The easiest way to close the gap is automatically provide 3 round passes per level and per pink star for players with survivor level over 20. For example, a player with level 23 survivors and 3 pink stars would automatically get 18 round passes a week on top of the round passes that they earn weekly.
This solution will immediately close the gap between mid level players and end gamers.
The end gamers will still probably play more rounds overall because of the 4 tier system over rsl 30 and also better gears and badges. But I think all end gamers would agree that taking out 18 rounds of play time weekly will drastically help the grind.
Once the gap is closed and the play time is leveled then any changes make to the challenges would impact all players equally, instead of always alienating a group.
A solution among this line will have to be implemented because it will only get worst moving forward. With every council upgrade on the current system an end gamer would have to play 3 more rounds. It will scale out of hand.
I also want the address the argument of fairness. Is it fair for end gamers to earn extra round passes?
I personally believe it is not only fair but will act as an incentive to level up. Many other mobile games are already doing this. Shouldn't you get more stars and rewards when you level up your characters in the first place? Currently it is a drag to level up. Why would anybody want to level up just to grind more and make all their gears obsolete?
Hopefully this solution doesn't land on deaf ears. I would love to hear all the feedbacks from the community and the developers as well.
But first, let's look at the root of the problem. Because until this is fixed, no ultimate challenge or any modification to the challenge format will work for everyone.
Currently the gap between the number of rounds played is too vastly different between different levels of players. Let's just do a comparison between a player with level 20 survivors with no pink stars vs level 23 survivors with 3 pink stars. The ASL (actual survivor level) would be level 20 vs level 26. Player B would get 6 more RSLs with no body shots. That is at least 18 rounds more if I'm not counting the tier 4s at RSL 30+. 18 more rounds is at least 108 more maps, or 648 more gas if you don't redo anything. That's INSANE!!!
This is only a comparison between mid level players and end gamers. If you throw in the players that are not even at level 20 yet the gap is even larger. That's why no matter what kind of changes to the challenge right now it will always ALIENATE a part of the player base.
So what's the solution?
It's simple, the 1st step is to level the amount of play time between ALL of the players as much as possible.
The easiest way to close the gap is automatically provide 3 round passes per level and per pink star for players with survivor level over 20. For example, a player with level 23 survivors and 3 pink stars would automatically get 18 round passes a week on top of the round passes that they earn weekly.
This solution will immediately close the gap between mid level players and end gamers.
The end gamers will still probably play more rounds overall because of the 4 tier system over rsl 30 and also better gears and badges. But I think all end gamers would agree that taking out 18 rounds of play time weekly will drastically help the grind.
Once the gap is closed and the play time is leveled then any changes make to the challenges would impact all players equally, instead of always alienating a group.
A solution among this line will have to be implemented because it will only get worst moving forward. With every council upgrade on the current system an end gamer would have to play 3 more rounds. It will scale out of hand.
I also want the address the argument of fairness. Is it fair for end gamers to earn extra round passes?
I personally believe it is not only fair but will act as an incentive to level up. Many other mobile games are already doing this. Shouldn't you get more stars and rewards when you level up your characters in the first place? Currently it is a drag to level up. Why would anybody want to level up just to grind more and make all their gears obsolete?
Hopefully this solution doesn't land on deaf ears. I would love to hear all the feedbacks from the community and the developers as well.
32
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He's an insanely good player so he knows what he's talking about killing them challenges
Now let's hope it will be this simple for NG as it is to us.
@Kaz comment would be appreciated.
The solution that works for everyone is the easiest to understand. Let players choose the level at which they want to start the challenge.
If you are concerned about eliminating the necessity of grinding for the leaderboards, just count the stars from individual players' best 30 rounds. You can use the same best 30 rounds for a player's star count if you want to limit individual and guild rewards.
We are all just guessing what data is most important in NG's analysis to try to maximize. My guess is their weekly revenue is certainly an important factor for them to maximize.
NG wants all players to play more, not less. That's for sure. Players who play more spend more money and watch more ads. The problem is that if they force players to play too much to get what they want, they risk losing the player. So they have to balance their desire to get players to play more, with the risk of losing players to the forced grind. It's a fine line to walk for NG.
Simply handing out round passes based on the level of your survivors goes against these principals. Why push yourself and test your skill, when you can get so much for little gas and effort? We believe that rewards mean more when they are fought for.
We agree that "players played too many rounds to get to the hard part", which is why we instituted Round Passes to begin with. Imagine the last 6 months without the 5-12 round passes you earned each week? The Max starting level change was made, admittedly heavy-handedly, to counter the perception that players were better off not upgrading their characters. With the Ultimate Challenge system and faster progression, however, getting even one round farther will result in a star reward that is a greater percentage of your total, and therefore the value of fully-upgraded characters is more apparent.
Part of the Ultimate Challenge process was determining which settings will satiate the end gamers that want to see the highest challenge levels and the lower players who use the easy rounds for resource farming. The last event showed that we were really close to finding that balance, and a system very similar to that will be what we launch with.
Options like progression selection, free round passes for no gameplay effort, etc. might work for another game, but we believe that they would devalue the effort and commitment that our players put into the game. We're going to be announcing the changes to the Challenge format quite soon, and if the results are similar to the last Ultimate Challenge event, we hope players will be quite satisfied.
Please note: Development is a fluid process, and suggestions and implementation take time and iteration. Any discussion of future features, deadlines, updates, balance changes, and such should be considered prospective and subject to change.
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Rewards should be earned...I've been playing the game for almost 2 years now - I've earned skipping the grind.
Missions should be challenging...95% or more of the missions I play in the weekly challenge are not at all challenging.
Skill matters...eventually it matters some, but not as much as using gold to reduce hospital time matters.
A couple months ago I started losing interest. 20 to 30 rounds of the challenge is all I can stand in a week. Round 30 is not challenging for me so the weekly challenge has no challenge for me at all most weeks. If the update changes aren't spectacular, I will unfortunately be another player leaving the game. I was a decent spender for about a year, but haven't spent a dime on the game since last fall.
You believe rewards mean more when they are fought for? So, why don't rewards scale? Why do we get the same rewards at RSL 29.2 that we can get at 15.1?
1. Round passes will only help skip the low level grind. Which is not challenging whatsoever so no skill is needed.
2. Round passes can be set independently from rewards all together. Getting round passes doesn't necessary mean you will get the rewards aside from stars. Stars are all relative and they are mostly here to satisfy the player base that doesn't want to see "star loss". For one you won't be getting any end challenge crates with RPs. I would be supportive personally if we don't earn double rewards for the round passes. Just skip all the rounds all together would be fine.
First let me be clear that I am a HUGE fan of the Ultimate Challenge. In fact UC1 was my favorite. However the UC format will provide a lot of scaling issues.
We are already seeing the mid to low level players not being a fan of the UC because it shortens their already shorter challenge. What happens when we get another council upgrade? You would have to cut another 3 rounds to match whatever current solution that meets the end gamer's needs. 3 council upgrades later we will be back in the same exact debate. By the time we get to council level 30 a new player would hit the wall in their first round if the UC will keep moving up in RSL.
So back to the point of the post, the most viable way I see is to level the play time between all the players. A level 10 player and maxed out player both have 24 hours in a day, so why does the max out player have to play double over time just to get the same gaming experience? Round passes doesn't necessary lead to free rewards that are not earned. It just simply help scale the challenge for end gamers so that we get to the challenging rounds in a similar fashion as a growing player.
The grind is costing Ng players, which effects all of us.
Rewards at this point are inconsistent and are not based on achievement anyway.
Why take the best solution any of us had seen and dismiss it?
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I have a very nice (small) comparison from my middle account (level 19 survivors) - UC1, UC3 (both Farmlands) and last weeks challenge.
I reached the highest difficulty ever at UC1. Was it hard? Sure? Did I need skill? Absolutely! Did I feel I earned my stars and rewards? Most definitely. (And I might even have had level 18 survivors back then, not sure about that.)
Now, as you can see, I didn't even reach my highest difficulty during the normal challenge. I got a lot more stars, sure... But did I need as much skill? No, definitely not. Did it feel rewarding? Well... sort of... but the grind was hard and bordering on being too much. I ran out of time.
As you can see, the UC3 is the happy middle (at least for me). But UC1 was the one that involved the most skill, that felt the most as if I had to work for the rewards, and was the one that felt the most rewarding even though I got fewer stars overall.
Giving out "un-earned" round passes (which in this system would actually have been earned by leveling up, getting all the tokens and whatnot) is not "free rewards", it is enabling players to actually work for their rewards without having to make the game a part-time job.
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I hope NG's plan looks something like that. Throw in round passes if you want, but all they are is a substitute for higher starting RSL.
I only hope there won't be people throwing fits about perceived lost stars for maxed out players, which is part of what exarcebated the grindy mess we're in now.
With round passes, the rewards for the skipped rounds get doubled for the same amount of played rounds.
With a higher starting RSL, the rounds get skipped without a compensation.
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No need to re-litgate the old battle, as I am hopeful any solution along the lines of any of the UC iterations will be a huge improvement for my own enjoyment.
Why are we getting lvl 22 green gear after burning 1000 gold for healing to reach RSL 33?
Why are we getting 8 Eugene tokens after burning 1000 gold for healing to reach RSL 33?
Honestly not even the "Interactive Jackpot Machine" factor is not working here: not only you feel scammed as a gambler but also any strategy involved into this "strategy game" is completely neglected.
Sorry if I'm sounding salty. Just can't say it other way.
Thanks.
@Shteevie I think you're not understanding the situation here and the implications of your point of view. If you're thought is that players who completed all of the council upgrades, upgrading each and every building to play through a low level grind, upgrading our teams and gear, then the reward should be low level grind that isn't challenging, then you're not in touch with your players. Giving round passes within this framework should not be seen as a freebie, it should be seen as giving those at the top a level playing field, being able to play a good number of rounds that is reasonable which gets challenging. Anything lower than rsl29 is a breeze that requires no strategy at all for most end-gamers... if nothing else you should be seeing the low level grind as a punishment for us. And NG even admitted in the last in-game UC announcement where it said something along the lines of "you'll get to where the challenge gets good faster". This solution includes aspects of the grind (which there will always be some of), but it also keeps star count consistent, shows customer appreciation, and understands that there is no reason whatsoever for players to wade through levels that aren't worth playing.
Main points: this solution is an elegant way to fix all of the challenge problems, whether or not it gets implemented and the fact that it is so easily dismissed shows that NG's response to this thread is out of touch with their players.
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