HAS NG GOT THE CHALLENGE FORMAT RIGHT?

13

Comments

  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    edited March 2018
    NO !

    @kaz So I would like to to answer something for me. How do you find it fair that I have grinded and grinded hour and hours to lvl 23 max and on lvl 28.3 in challenge can have a guild member doing over 200 stars more than me because they are a much lower level 19 and dont have pink star survivors. Makes me look crap in my guild and that I'm slacking off. Why do lower level players get the advantage ? Why don't higher levle players make more stars ? How is that fair ?

    Just have to ask, for full comparison, do you know how many hours they played with 1 min gas vs how many you played?

    I’ve put in nearly 18 hours each day over the weekend. (Don’t judge me! Hahah)
    I ask because I’m level 19 survivors and got 734 total and I do have Pink star survivors.
    Started with 5 RP’s.
    Do I also have 200(ish) stars more than you?

    Descensus in cuniculi cavum
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    Concordia

  • The_OvercomerThe_Overcomer Member Posts: 182
    NO !
    So gold crates to not include the 3 star gear which is great. But I have seen no more than 5 gold crates through this whole challenge. I am currently up to 28.3. The challenge format still needs work.
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    NO !
    I was able to hit my normal level of 31 with little effort cause of KaBoom, but the rewards were gosh awful. I did the chart half way through week and we saw what we were missing. I will do a completed chart sometime this week to account for star loss.

    I like the short grind aspect(there is still grind) but not at the cost of massive amounts of TG and radios when NG told us the loss would be min. Stay tuned as there will be a poo thread.
    The_OvercomerJenngJadenbigbeano
  • CaptainslayerCaptainslayer Member Posts: 1,430
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    @ShadowaceAz if that 3rd person seriously only had lvl 16 survivors that person is pretty good at the game even if they did get a easy extra 200 stars (although 200 extra stars doesn't seem right) I'd be asking them what rsl they started and what rsl they're currently on
    Elder of dragons weyr a top USA guild
  • BonzakidBonzakid Member Posts: 29
    NO !
    NO!Change the challenge in 2 modes (Normal and Hard),just like the distance.My guild lost out on a lot of stars from most players, bring back the grind I say!
  • berg280berg280 Member Posts: 147
    NO !
    I say hell no. I'm out of TGs for the first time in months. I'll take the grind over the loss of all these rewards.
    Fahqbendover
  • andy75andy75 Member Posts: 262
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    Love the reduction in rounds. Could care less about stars because everybody is down on stars. Would like TG rewards to be scaled up to match what they were.
    TJSJadenDBonesCronus
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    NO !
    Sounds like some should like the catch phrase I made to a poster.
    (Removed part to avoid “Recruiting Outside Guild Forum” rule)


    Descensus in cuniculi cavum
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    Concordia

  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    NO !
    If I am not mistaken NG told us the loss would be minimal, but it appears most complaints are the loss of TG and/or Radios
  • InspTurbinesInspTurbines Member Posts: 706
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    @Jaden said, "...I was outscored by two lower-level players but I think they are more skilled than me..."

    I think for some but not all; this was part of the issue. Some people associate higher star count with better player skills. This is not nessiciarly the case in all instances, and I think this came to light this week.

    I saw a different side of some of the guild family this week, and not in a good way. I personally was finally able to tap out due difficulty level as opposed time constraint! I finished third in my guild and number 2 who beat me was a lower level player! I say kudos to you!
    Jaden
  • RoadRashRoadRash Member Posts: 180
    IMO the challenge system breaks down when players are able to not level up to achieve more stars than folks who get multiple max level characters.

    I don't like a system that penalizes level progression. A simple answer to this is a fixed star bonus applied to all folks who start at the highest RSL. Dont penalize me star count wise because I chose to level.


    Dodkong
  • tallinietallinie Member Posts: 393
    NO !
    Maybe its due to Kaboom challenge but I felt that grind was still pretty much involved.

    In my alt account having lvl 13,14,15 survivors, its now somewhat tolerable when you dont have pink star survivors and badges etc. Went up to rsl 20 from starting difficulty 11.

    But in my main account having lvl 23 survivors, situation is only slightly improved, free passes every 3 rounds and/or higher starting difficulty would be more than welcome. Went up to rsl 32 from starting difficulty 17. No way Im going to upgrade my survivors to lvl 24, that would mean at least 3 extra rounds.. OK, I could always make it more interesting to me by playing with heros only and without badges as I do with my alt account. But I guess then I would need to search for another guild as well :)
    Murdoque
  • DoTakDoTak Member Posts: 1,964
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    Ok, I've compared this past week's Ka-Boom challenge with the previous week's In the Dead of Night.

    First of all, it's not a great comparison due to the following factors:
    - 1 minute gas weekend event vs no such event
    - camp upgrades diverting time and gas resources from the challenge

    But here it is anyway.

    I don't care much about stars, so this comparison is about rewards.

    I started both challenges with 6 RPs. I played 6 fewer rounds this past week (36 fewer missions)

    The number of personal reward crates (challenge, deluxe, token) was identical, so kudos there

    Guild rewards (Trade Goods/# of rewards achieved):
    In the Dead of Night: 4,950/8
    Ka-Boom: 3,800/8
    difference: -1,150 or 25% drop

    Guild rewards (Radios/# of radio rewards achieved)
    In the Dead of Night: 20/3
    Ka-Boom: 25/4
    difference: +5 or 25% more

    Personal rewards for round completion (Trade Goods/# of rounds played)
    In the Dead of Night: 27,025/24
    Ka-Boom: 17,400/18
    difference: -9,625 or 36% less

    Total Trade Goods obtained (personal):
    In the Dead of Night: 31,975
    Ka-Boom: 21,200
    difference: -10,775 or 33% less

    Guild scores vary which is why I included the difference as a percentage as well
    So 1 third less TGs.
    And I'm wondering if it would've been even less without the gas event :|

    bigbeanoMurdoqueDBonesSCBMA
  • JenngJenng Member Posts: 3,442
    YES !
    Pig said:

    I feel like I'm standing on a landmine. I have to like this format entirely, because if I criticise even the smallest thing then they'll "fix" it in a way that reintroduces unbearable grind. No matter how delicately I pull my foot off the mine, it's going to blast a grind explosion right up through me.

    I’m not even scared now ........ that sounds AWESOME!

    DoTak
  • jrodrf2jrodrf2 Member Posts: 335
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    May I throw a suggestion out there that could help with those upset about star loss and rewards? (Bear in mind that I am firmly in the "star counts don't really matter, but not a fan of reduced rewards" camp)

    I saw somewhere a calculation stating an estimated 30% star drop with this change. I dropped from a usual 900-1000 stars to 740, so fairly close to that estimate for myself. So...
    Step 1: Make a fourth star available for, say, not having anyone injured into the red (or some other genius idea that someone else thinks of). This would increase the stars by 33%, assuming a perfect score. o:) Star counters are happy. o:)

    Step 2: Leave the reward structure as is. With the increase in stars, more reward levels would be attained. *Maybe @DLich could wave his magical math wand for some concrete numbers* o:) Reward seekers are happy o:)

    Am I missing anyone here. Would anyone not be happy :( with this idea?
  • tallinietallinie Member Posts: 393
    NO !
    @jrodrf2 Once it was proposed that fourth star would be given for quest as "complete mission with Rick" or "kill 5 walkers with Rosita". I dont know why NG didnt want to implement that. Should not be too complicated and would add fun factor.
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    YES !
    @jrodrf2

    One problem with your suggestion, is the "not having anyone injured into the red" is already part of the star calculation. It would require one of those "some other genius ideas" to make it work. 3 stars = perfect. 2 stars = bruised or injured. 1 star = injured into the red.

    The other problem is that it probably isn't as easy as it seems to code some new star bonus into the game, even if somebody has the right genius idea.

    And all it does is artificially inflate star counts to old levels. I am firmly in the camp that even those who are fixated on the number will get over it once a lower count becomes the new norm. And if they can't get over it, too bad so sad.
    DLichJaden
  • MurdoqueMurdoque Member Posts: 67
    NO !
    Well as Mabiki seems to be of the opinion that all that voted no and didn't go into details did this because of the lower starcount i now have to give my reasons (altough i'm already on a point where i think mostly what gives and who cares).
    For me it was the abysmal loss in tgs and overall rewards, furthermore (maybe because of kaboom) i didn't have the impression that the grind lessened markedly (i stopped playing challenge on sunday because of mental exhaustion). And last but not least i already saw that i wouldn't get enough round passes to really make a difference next week, this week i had 7 and next week i'm again in agony land.
    tldr (wo cares, certainly not ng), this tiger is hanging on his last claw...

    Mabiki
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    edited March 2018
    YES !
    @Murdoque

    For the record, I was only talking about those who specifically complained about lower star counts. Fare thee well.
    CaptainslayerMurdoque
  • ADPaqADPaq Member Posts: 392
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    I think NG should scrap stars entirely. Problem solved.
    Captainslayer
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    edited March 2018
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    ..
    Mabiki said:

    @jrodrf2

    One problem with your suggestion, is the "not having anyone injured into the red" is already part of the star calculation. It would require one of those "some other genius ideas" to make it work. 3 stars = perfect. 2 stars = bruised or injured. 1 star = injured into the red.

    The other problem is that it probably isn't as easy as it seems to code some new star bonus into the game, even if somebody has the right genius idea.

    And all it does is artificially inflate star counts to old levels. I am firmly in the camp that even those who are fixated on the number will get over it once a lower count becomes the new norm. And if they can't get over it, too bad so sad.

    I agree with what you're saying.

    Just wanted to point out;

    3 stars for perfect
    2 stars if one or more survivors are bruised or injured
    1 star if one or more survivors enter wrestle (struggle)

    (You can be injured into the red and still get 2 stars)
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
    Captainslayerbigbeano
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    I'm also going to withhold my vote until later, but here are a few points of context that hopefully aren't overlooked.

    1. Grind. It's still there, it's always gonna be there. This is the central theme of the game ever since the story missions stopped propelling us towards higher chapters #savethedamnbaby. I completed 10 less rounds than usual this week, started with 9 round passes and since it was Ka-Boom (point and shoot challenge) I got to a comfortable stopping point and it was great to not have as much mindless play as the previous system.

    2. Less trade goods. I haven't done the math, but I assumed that with less rounds played, we wouldn't be getting the same (gross) number of tg rewards from the challenges (less tomatoes at lower levels, less shit gear at lower levels, less xp because of less levels played, and yes, less trade goods because of a less number of rounds completed). The gas saved can convert into scavenger missions (whose gas cost has gone down), outpost raids for tg's, and rewards for the distance on Saturdays. I'm not sure that there was an obligation to get the same number of tg's if we weren't playing as many rounds. Sure I would love to have the same number of tg's from the challenge as before, but the time and gas saved is more than enough to make up for it in outpost (though I know not all like playing outpost, and I think it's completely fair to have that opinion and express it).

    3. Phones. Admittedly I didn't keep track of guild reward phones. From @DoTak's data above, (assuming all things equal accross the board) we're not getting fewer phones. But I can't assume that it actually is true across the board, and if any guild is playing their way through the missions to comparable difficulties as before and are getting fewer phones, then that's completely fucked. Phones are phones and everyone needs them, and they should not be lessened one bit.

    4. Star count. For guilds that have all players with survivors lvl23 and up, everything is proportional (except for losing the stars from the .4 rounds at 30 and up over those who didn't play past 30.3). For those with guilds that have a varying range of survivors' levels, it seems that there are some legitimate claims that *some* with lower level survivors than others are not scaling proportionally. The realist in me says, "That's fucked up." Another side says, "That'll make players with golden levels of lower survivors more competitive... which is great for competition, but fucked up that the extra time and effort of farming and upgrading buildings, survivors, and gear amount to a smaller advantage." The easiest fix I see for this is to have everyone start at the same level and award round passes for every player as they level up their team each level. I know @Shteevie will say that NG doesn't want to give away free things for no effort, but the effort was put in to farm all of the tomatoes, farm millions upon millions of xp for survivors and even more for gear, and this change would fix the star discrepancy issue once and for all. Plus it gives more incentive to those who are not max level to upgrade their camps and teams quickly (and in NG speak, the faster people want to level up, the more time, effort, and oftentimes money will be expended).

    As far as guild star scores go, this week's was consistent with to other weeks of where players placed, but as I mentioned above, we're all starting at the same spot. Getting a lower total is as immaterial as everyone else said in this thread... doesn't count for anything, it's about the difficulty level you are able to get to, not total amount of stars. Our guild has retired our old personal bests and have this past week's challenge scores to beat for new pb's.

    5. Round passes. Yes, we are getting a lower number of round passes because ultimately we are playing less rounds... but that's because we are playing less rounds. I think choosing whether or not to use round passes is great for those who want to play lower level rounds (the tg rewards aren't different since you're getting 2x the trade goods from every round you complete at x2, but you will get lower rsl rewards in tomatoes, xp, and gear), and I don't think there's any problem with anyone wanting this. I believe we were told that having an option to choose a normal/hard mode of challenges would be too difficult to do, so it won't be pursued... but maybe someone has a better memory of when that was discussed/addressed from NG.

    Anyways, I'm still gonna be killing some virtual zombies and having a blast with my guild (the main reason I play) and I hope that everyone else can do that too. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the challenge this week and will be sharpening my (virtual) knives.
    zivaolivia
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    NO !
    DoTak said:

    Ok, I've compared this past week's Ka-Boom challenge with the previous week's In the Dead of Night.

    First of all, it's not a great comparison due to the following factors:
    - 1 minute gas weekend event vs no such event
    - camp upgrades diverting time and gas resources from the challenge

    But here it is anyway.

    I don't care much about stars, so this comparison is about rewards.

    I started both challenges with 6 RPs. I played 6 fewer rounds this past week (36 fewer missions)

    The number of personal reward crates (challenge, deluxe, token) was identical, so kudos there

    Guild rewards (Trade Goods/# of rewards achieved):
    In the Dead of Night: 4,950/8
    Ka-Boom: 3,800/8
    difference: -1,150 or 25% drop

    Guild rewards (Radios/# of radio rewards achieved)
    In the Dead of Night: 20/3
    Ka-Boom: 25/4
    difference: +5 or 25% more

    Personal rewards for round completion (Trade Goods/# of rounds played)
    In the Dead of Night: 27,025/24
    Ka-Boom: 17,400/18
    difference: -9,625 or 36% less

    Total Trade Goods obtained (personal):
    In the Dead of Night: 31,975
    Ka-Boom: 21,200
    difference: -10,775 or 33% less

    Guild scores vary which is why I included the difference as a percentage as well
    So 1 third less TGs.
    And I'm wondering if it would've been even less without the gas event :|



    But KaBoom is the easiest set of challenge maps. Last time old grind someone scored 3k stars.

    So I think its boarder line fair to compare
    DoTak
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,010
    edited March 2018
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    As pointed out there are variables to consider really. Ka-boom increases the grind, I managed to clear 32.3 and get to RSL33 for the first time. I might have been able to get further but I just didn't care enough to try. I hate ka-boom, it's a mind numbingly boring, repetitive set of maps where melee is even less viable than usual and only got as far as I did for my guild. I doubt I'll get close to that when Archives is featured even with pre-charged assaults.

    Yes we got less trade goods but we also played less rounds. With the gas saved I could have easily made up for the loss but since my priority was making the most of 1 min gas for supplies I ran out of TG's for the first time in a long, long time. However, this isn't because of the new challenge system.

    I had 9 round passes from the week before and started on RSL24 which is absolutely great, so any epic/legendary gear I got from the start of the challenge was going to be either 23 or 24. I got 6 RP's this week so will probably start at RSL22/23 which I'm okay with. At least I'll have a chance for level appropriate gear from day one of the challenge rather than after 2 days of grinding low level maps!

    I'd have voted yes if it wasn't for the council upgrade. The jump in damage from 23 to 24 is huge which is just going to make it so that the difficult missions start 1-2 rounds further into the challenge which is what we're hoping to avoid! I have a feeling once I've got a team full of level 24 survivors with 27 gear it's just going to be more of the same.
    DBonesCronusDoTak
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    NO !
    Another good sample size that might warrant in game poll. It is obvious players are upset mostly with the rewards. What many are failing to mention is that Kaboom is a star earning set of maps so it will be even worse this weekend
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    edited March 2018
    NOT SURE / MAYBE ?
    The benefits of a forum poll is players can add comments for their votes, which wouldn't be possible with an in game vote.

    I notice in this poll players voting differently yet have the same or similar opinions.

    I'd be for an in game vote of any sort but I think there's a limit to what true opinions can be collected.

    This is why I try to encourage players to comment, not just vote.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
    DBones
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    NO !
    @TJS

    I fully understand bud this was not a knock at all. But touching 100 forum members vs touching what I assume is close to a million players is vastly different.

    I see NG sales, but those are not necessary directed to only NML. I would assume it is mostly from game. So gives me roughish and very guessed number of 1m or so players that are semi regular.
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