Pre determined rewards.

DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
This has been said many times in the past but again proof that it doesn’t matter which crates you pick. As many of you know I always pick down the right side top to bottom. Here’s what I received.



Then I got reconnecting. I force closed the app. Reopened it. And was back to the middle of the mission. I then clicked the other side bottom to top. Same rewards in the same order. Only thing changed is the traits.



After a little more farming supplies I upgraded my training grounds, used gold to speed it up and now upgrading my first lvl 24. Santa.



2.72 mil xp and 20 hours from now I’ll buy lvl 24 reckoning.

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Comments

  • MattOfEarthMattOfEarth Member Posts: 632
    I’ve had the same thing happen on Radio Calls. Makes you wonder about the “random” part of the RNG.
    “Simply put, there’s a vast ocean of sh!t you people don’t know sh!t about. Rick knows every fine grain of said sh!t.”

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  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    edited March 2018
    In 20 hours when he’s lvl 24 if I understand correctly...

    1) my scavenger rsl will increase by 1
    2) all distance gear rewards will be lvl 24
    3) Any assault gear in the 12.5K spot will be lvl 24 guaranteed.

    I’m now lvl 68 so I’m guaranteed lvl 24 gear in leg and epic crates right?

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  • GovernatorGovernator Member Posts: 4,258
    Yep! Once you get your Assault to 24, the gear improved in the TG Shop!

    It also changes Level the moment your Assault gets to level 24. I had level 23 gear bump up to level 24 even after the restock happened. That was a pleasant surprise on TG Tuesday.
    MattOfEarthanniesprinklesflyingcowking
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    The pre determined rewards has been spoken about before, I can't find the thread atm.
    Rewards are pre determined seconds before entering the crate screen. It was changed to this after players were found to be using an exploit of using flight mode to disconnect and find the best rewards. Can't blame NG for making this change.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
    DLichShadowaceAzMattOfEarth
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @TJS then it makes me wonder if NG is truly in compliance with Apple if it’s predetermined it can’t be “odds”

    Regardless what 3 crates I pick I am getting the exact same thing. Regardless how I pick crates. That’s such a cheeky shit on NGs part.
    MattOfEarth
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    Because the ‘odds’ roll before mission completion to stop cheating.
    It’s still odd, just not when you expect it.
    Descensus in cuniculi cavum
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    Concordia

    jimmorrison369
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    But if it’s predetermined my first three picks are gonna be let’s say Xp, Xp, Xp

    It’s not odds it’s given because no matter if I go row 1, 2, or 3 I’m getting 3 Xp so why even have crates? Why not just give 3 mission awards? Why not then let us watch video for next 3?
    jimmorrison369pradi
  • MadPuppyMadPuppy Member Posts: 2,831
    It's random as per the drop rates all right. That the random generation happens prior to the tapping of the crates does nothing to change that. It just means that the game knows what your first three taps will be, and the second and the third. What's in it was determined by the RNG none the less.

    Your tapping of the crates was never going to influence the RNG anyhow.

    But if reloading the game could infinitely re-roll the dice... let's just say this mechanic is preventing abuse, and thus preventing us honest players from being bothered by those with less honour.
    DLichTJSThe_OvercomerflyingcowkingMattOfEarth
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    You are missing the point it’s predertermined that you open the gold create regardless of how you pick.

    Basically they can ensure the gold crate is only opened on the 7th picking ensuring you only spend gold. Or it could be that out of 5 gold crates you are gonna only open 3 without spending gold. There is no luck to picking crates it’s all predetermined if you are opening items. I think this goes against Apple
    The_OvercomerMattOfEarth
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @Boukephalos

    What I’m saying if it’s predetermined then it doesn’t matter if I pick down 1st row or second row or 3rd row I’m either getting the gold crate if it’s slotted to be so. That’s not odds and no math either gold box is being picked if 1-3 or 4-6 if you watch video you agreed with the statement above that paragraph.

    The odds of the content is okay and predetermined, I don’t doubt that but again Dlichs photo show it doesn’t matter which boxes you select you getting same. So when I’m opening crates and there’s 1 gold there is no 1 in 9 chance of getting it as it’s predetermined if I’m gonna open it or not. That’s where I question if apples rule is being followed or not.
    MattOfEarth
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    Be that tedious, @Boukephalos
    Tripod
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    edited March 2018
    > @Drunken said:
    > @Boukephalos
    >
    > What I’m saying if it’s predetermined then it doesn’t matter if I pick down 1st row or second row or 3rd row I’m either getting the gold crate if it’s slotted to be so.

    No, it doesn't. That doesn't change the reality of the odds.

    > That’s not odds

    Yes it is. Only the timing of when the odds were applied is changed.


    >
    > The odds of the content is okay and predetermined, I don’t doubt that but again Dlichs photo show it doesn’t matter which boxes you select you getting same.

    Which doesn't change the odds which affected what is in the box.

    >> Sohen I’m opening crates and there’s 1 gold there is no 1 in 9 chance of getting it as it’s predetermined if I’m gonna open it or not. That’s where I question if apples rule is being followed or not.


    So the game tells you 1 is gold and you hope it's one of the 6 you don't have to pay gold for. What are the chances, if you genuinely have a choice over which box to pick, of it being in those 6? 2 in 3. What were the chances of it being in the first 6 if it is a preheated sequence? Two in three. No difference. Having control or not changes the odds not one bit. Control, in a situation where no skill is involved and nothing you do can change the odds, is an illusion.
    jimmorrison369SCBMAMattOfEarth
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    Then the choice of boxes could be eliminated for general rewards. The reality is there is no way for us to know if there is behind scene actions such as player X Spends x amount and it switches odds. In North America we have BBB which consumers can accuse or inquire and then companies have had to report. Seen in a game where a company has tweaking odds in certain players.

    It is a risk but also same time Apple likely isn’t to dig or ask much unless there was overwhelming evidence. So say I felt I never got to open gold on 6 picks. I ran a study and out of 5k gold crates I only opened 1% then maybe, but if crates are predetermined then what about badges? Are my next 100 badges predetermined? 100000? Does it matter if I craft today or tomorrow or next month? When I think random I think that it’s gonna change based on various odds.
    The_Overcomer
  • T_storm69T_storm69 Member Posts: 49
    edited March 2018
    All I know is I trusted everything BP...said about the deep horizon oil spill!
    I trust the gas crates don't go up during 1 minute gas refill.
    I trust all weapon traits are random.
    I trust there is no predetermined outcome
    I trust NG has only the players perspective in mind.
    I trust that we all agree.
    This air is killing me...head in the sand
    P.S.
    Trust me I won't spend any more money. ;)
    KillersZ
  • MabikiMabiki Member Posts: 1,732
    @Drunken
    There is no way for us to know a lot of things. Crates have nothing to do with badges. I don't think you understand the idea of "odds." File a BBB complaint, or Apple report, or whatever if you feel it is merited. Run your study if you care so much. It seems to me like you're just looking for things to turn into problems. You use the forum as a platform to whine, and you ignore logical answers you don't like.

    @T_Storm69
    Even if your implication is correct (which is debatable), how many species have been put in jeopardy by gas crate odds and weapon traits? How many lives affected? Keep your wallet closed. I believe in the power of the purse. But fuck your analogy.
    bigbeanoThe_Overcomerjimmorrison369SCBMA
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,746
    > @ADPaq said:
    > Personally I've strongly suspected many aspects of the game are pre-determined, including whether or not you will open the first 3 crates on a map and move on, or have to open all them to move on.
    >
    > I'm always in favour of speeding up the game so to that end I propose scrapping opening crates entirely and just give 3 rewards on mission completion, similar to the how the distance handles it.

    I agree. I feel the challenge would benefit from fixed rewards, especially the challenge crates, deluxe and token crates. I mean RNG is great when you get 24 Sasha tokens for getting 25* but there's nothing more frustrating than grinding a set of 1* maps to be rewarded with 8 Eugene from the crate :lol:
    Jadenpradi
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    @Drunken

    It’s all about code. (Period)

    https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask-an-engineer/can-a-computer-generate-a-truly-random-number/
    Can a computer generate a truly random number?
    It depends what you mean by random…
    You are using a computer, and I seriously doubt that NG or any other game of such type, is going so far as to use solar radiation readings, magnetic flux integers, or barometric pressure readings, as part of the seed. So, you are absolutely correct, there is nothing random about your selections. Never has been, never will be.
    Why is it impossible to produce truly random numbers in any deterministic device ?
    A deterministic device will always produce the same output when given the same starting conditions and inputs - that is what it means to be deterministic. "Truly random number" is more of a philosophical viewpoint, as what does it mean to be random is the crux of the philosophical navel gazing (folks aren't even certain if atomic decay is random or follows some pattern we just can't figure out yet). A cryptographically secure random number generator is going to take some external source of entropy to make the device non-deterministic.
    Neither Apple, the BBB, nor the United Nations can change the fact.

    This is truly the definition of:



    Descensus in cuniculi cavum
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    Concordia

    paintbeastJadenSCBMA
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @Mabiki

    Take it as whining or take it as comical feedback. The #1 badge is my LOL I like it that way it trumps everything else.

    But the concept of completely random means that it’s 100% random if it’s predetermined then it’s not random

    Random=made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision.

    If predetermined then it can’t be chosen without method or conscious decistipn. Ideally crates wouldn’t be my biggest concern here it would be more radio or badge crafting. If it’s predetermined then my next 100 badges are already determined so % of crafting x,y,z doesn’t have no meaning. If I spend 100 bucks again for 500 radios then it’s predetermined what I will get there’s no odds I’m gonna get XYZ so the odds of getting survivor is actually not accurate
    BoukephalosSCBMA
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    edited March 2018
    Opening crates is like rolling a dice.
    The dice is still rolled moments before you enter the crate screen.

    Is it possible that is rigged and no dice is truly rolled? I guess that's possible but IMO "highly" unlikely.

    Nevertheless, as far as we know the rice is rolled before entering the crate screen because players using an expolit in the past so there is no going back. If you want to blame anyone, that should be those players who used that exploit.

    If the dice is rolled before you enter the crate screen or not it's still random. Not sure what people can't understand about that.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,541
    I would love to know the odds that I had opening that gold crate first. It’s obvious that it was pre determined what it would be and if I opening it in the first 3. My gripe is it’s like “dangling fruit”

    If I see the gold crate, yet I don’t open it in the beginning I might consider spending 25 gold to try the second time. But it’s it’s already pre determined that I won’t get he gold crate until the 3rd set of unlocks then it’s not really a “chance” decision. It’s a pre made decision with the appearance of chance.

    I agree that clicking any 3 boxes doesn’t make me feel like I clicked the wrong ones since they are pre determined what I’ll get. I just wish I knew the actual odds of selecting the gold crate in the first try.

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  • MadPuppyMadPuppy Member Posts: 2,831
    Even if the probability of a gold ticket coming in any of the three chance to open crates is 33,333333333etc% (by which I mean, truly an equal chance) we the players who want that chance to be 100% in our favour would still percieve that we are at a disadvantage.

    I have not studied phsychology, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking we are just wired like that.

    I have no idea how that crate mechanic (or any other mechanic for that matter) really works, but I'm convinced it's just programmed with set probability parameters, just like anything else in the game.
    jimmorrison369TJSSCBMA
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    Wouldn't the odds be 33.3%
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
    jimmorrison369
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,062
    If there is 1 gold crate, there is a 1/3 chance it will be in your first 3 boxes.

    Unless NG was deliberately forcing them not to be in first 3 boxes.
    That would be dumb of them to do. Eventually people would find out.

    We would've known by now and they already would've changed it.

    So here we are, 1 gold box. 33.3% chanche it will be in your first 3 clicks.
    TJSSCBMAkamilowaty
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @jimmorrison369

    You miss the whole point. Regardless what 3 boxes you choose they are always going to be the same so odds aren’t 1/3 to get it in first try.

    @DLich

    Everyone that isn’t seeing issue keeps saying math but we don’t know math we can’t say odds of opening a gold crate is 1 in anything because we don’t know what the predertimined order is. Only thing that is odds about this is how often a gold crate shows after that then it’s predertimined regardless how or which you pick.

    If this is the case then I’m leaning towards other aspects of game arent “random”

    Any how it is what it is. Obviously giving us odds of what’s in crate still doesn’t give us any worthy odds. It appears people found a way to exploit and the advance team hasn’t found a way to stop it other than take away true random and then present things as “random”
  • TJSTJS Member Posts: 4,501
    The dice is still rolled before you enter the crate screen so it's still random.

    Some can't understand why some people can't see this isn't random. Others can't see how some believe it's not random.

    Why NG would put themselves at risk and rig crates doesn't make sense.

    Nevertheless obviously some believe it's not random and therefore rigged my NG.
    My question to those players, if you truly believe NG is rigging outcomes within the game why would you continue to play?

    The odds are stacked against players which is now available information, not that we didn't already know this. Why would they bother rigging crates to put players at more disadvantage and put themselves at risk?

    The moment I loose joy in playing for whatever reason I'll just stop playing. It seems odd there are some players who seem to already have lost joy in playing, continue to play and just complain the game isn't fair.
    -
    TJS  -  Member of W-S
    Nation Wars 🇦🇺 Australian Team Captain
    jimmorrison3691RisDodkongSCBMA
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