Do Defensive Stance and Iron Skin/Damage Reduction stack or multiply?

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  • Conan1976Conan1976 Member Posts: 758
    this kinda sucks. :(
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  • JackBauerJackBauer Member Posts: 1,550
    @OneLessTitan thanks olt, I didn’t had the steps so I just went Trough the whole range by single digit. ;)
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  • OneLessTitanOneLessTitan Member Posts: 1,273
    Fantastic @JackBauer -- I also have no intentions of testing that out with Jerry, but I'd imagine his Damage Reduction is applied in a similar way as Defensive Stance. The probably explanation I got as why Damage Reduction doesn't just add up is because IS and Badges are calculated when the mission screen loads, and Defensive Stance is then applied at the time of it activating...Jerry's Trait would fit into that later equation, as does DR in Cover (which is now supposed to be 35%, or 30%, not 50%).

    But then that also makes me wonder about the Critical Chance from Sure Shot/Power Strike...if the Critical Chance from Base/Accurate/Badges/Lucky is determined at loading screen, then is Critical from Sure Shot then calculated in a similar way as DS...or since Critical Attacks are always being "rolled" based on factors like Walker Level Difference, is it immune to this kind of funky math?? More questions that I hope someone else will answer....
    tabernacJackBauerMischajimmorrison369
  • MischaMischa Member Posts: 87
    Great job guys, this brings a lot of clarification on that topic!
  • ShadowaceAzShadowaceAz Member Posts: 3,402
    Here I was thinking the old AD&D rules could get convoluted!!

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  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,007
    @OneLessTitan .
    I didn't test this myself.
    @Monsuta was under the impression Jerry's trait actually doesn't belong to "damage reduction".
    If @tabernac could put in jerry as leader this could easily be tested.

    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/297434/#Comment_297434
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 805

    @OneLessTitan .

    I didn't test this myself.

    @Monsuta was under the impression Jerry's trait actually doesn't belong to "damage reduction".

    If @tabernac could put in jerry as leader this could easily be tested.



    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/297434/#Comment_297434

    @jimmorrison369 - Sure, I can do some testing, but I never use Jerry so I want to make sure I go about this the right way. Would I just need to let a Level 26 Fattie whale away on my Bruiser while Jerry is standing directly behind my Bruiser? Do we get a "Bodyguard" word bubble or something that indicates when Jerry's trait triggers?
    jimmorrison369bigbeano
  • jimmorrison369jimmorrison369 Member Posts: 2,007
    Yes, @tabernac, that is basically how it works.
    So I did a little test myself too.

    If my theory would've been correct.
    It would halve the end damage, basically getting "90%" damage reduction. This didn't happen at all. The lvl26 walkers did 220 to 250 damage. No matter if bodyguard happened or no...

    So to conclude, bodyguard does halve your damage, but it abides to the max damage reduction laws of the universe.

    You could double check, but you'll prolly come to the same conclusion.
  • tabernactabernac Member Posts: 805
    OK, ran some more testing (probably a little more thorough than necessary, but what the hell). I was delayed a bit because i ran in to @UrWaLkNDeAd 's outpost and got hospitalized. Jesus, his/her Outpost is a nasty piece of business...

    Ran tests using my Level 24 Bruiser with Defensive Stance.

    Survivor Stats:

    Gold Iron Skin on Armor = 15%
    Iron Skin Trait = 17%
    Defensive Stance Trait = 51%

    ( All strikes are from a Level 26 Fattie while in Overwatch. No Criticals, No Body Shots. All Normal strikes)

    Bruiser with DR Badges equipped (36% Damage Reduction) - No Jerry

    Strike 1 = 228
    Strike 2 = 275
    Strike 3 = 240
    Strike 4 = 279
    Strike 5 = 271
    Strike 6 = 273

    DR Badges equipped (36% Damage Reduction) - With Jerry and Bodyguard Triggers

    Strike 1 = 261
    Strike 2 = 276
    Strike 3 = 247
    Strike 4 = 259
    Strike 5 = 280
    Strike 6 = 249

    With Jerry and Bodyguard triggers - NO badges equipped

    Strike 1 = 271
    Strike 2 = 272
    Strike 3 = 252
    Strike 4 = 276
    Strike 5 = 228
    Strike 6 = 284
  • KaLiKaLi Member Posts: 426
    So confusing with all this math sometimes.. maybe someone like @Kaz can confirm if it adds or multiply


    We really need the character stats screen that shows and adds up all our numbers !
    tabernacbigbeano
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263
    KaLi said:

    So confusing with all this math sometimes.. maybe someone like @Kaz can confirm if it adds or multiply

    It doesn't do either. The answer to my original question is "neither".

    There seems to be a two-stage process of damage reduction. In the first step, Iron Skin and damage reduction badges are added together and that percentage is removed from the damage. In the second step, the Defensive Stance percentage is removed from whatever damage is left after step 1.

    So they don't multiply; if tney did, DS wouldn't work at all if you had no Iron Skin and no DR badges (zero multiplied by anything is zero). Peversely, the effect of Defensive Stance is inversely proportional to the IronSkin+DamageReduction total.

    If a survivor has no Iron Skin and no Damage Reduction badges but 30% Defensive Stance and is hit for 100 damage, then DS will remove 30 damage points, leaving 70. But if you add a 10% damage badge (with no set bonus, to keep the arithmetic simple), then the damage badge will remove 10 points and DS will only remove 27 (because 30% of 90 is 27). The survivor is better off (damage has been reduced to 63 points) but DS is actually doing less.

    Worth explaining again because I'm still encountering people who have read this thread and think Defensive Stance multiplies damage reduction.

    aquila
  • CBgaming1969CBgaming1969 Member Posts: 1,359
    I have basically a stupid distance related Jerry leader trait...

    If in a distance mission Jerry gets killed or is used as a sacrifice. When he dies in mission, does his leader boost still stay active?

    Very curious and that goes to all leader traits in distance.

    @jimmorrison369 @tabernac @OneLessTitan @Kaz @Shteevie anyone else?
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 275
    Yes.
    CBgaming1969
  • CBgaming1969CBgaming1969 Member Posts: 1,359
    Thanks @aquila I thought so, but just felt compelled to confirm that based on the conversation:)
  • David_H79David_H79 Member Posts: 1,866
    Doesn't Jerry's trait require to stand next to him?
    If so, the trait can't be activated anymore.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 3,816
    I have a bruiser with 81% total damage reduction that also has the defensive stance trait

    He takes exactly the same damage whether or not he's in overwatch, with minor variance due to rng.

    Yes, I'm still looking for a bruiser I like without DS.



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  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 275
    @David_H79 , yesterday while playing a distance mission, Jerry was standing next to a bruiser. On that turn Jerry died, bruiser was hit and "bodyguard" popped up above her.
    David_H79
  • BoukephalosBoukephalos Member Posts: 263

    I have a bruiser with 81% total damage reduction that also has the defensive stance trait



    He takes exactly the same damage whether or not he's in overwatch, with minor variance due to rng.


    .

    Of course he does; you're already over the cap even before DS could be applied.

    @aquila Same turn isn't so surprising. What about turns after, though?
    romeo
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 275
    Since i haven't experienced i can only guess that standing by the corpse counts. Actually that seems what happened during my mission.
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