GUILD WEEK - Our feedback about your feedback!

KazKaz Member Posts: 1,423
Hello, everyone!

It seems that we've received a lot of great feedback about the Guild Week, I took some notes, but I don't remember who said what, but I'll try to address them all:

- Tomato Monday
We got some good feedback about it, but we are not going to run it every Monday. We are going to try something new instead. So in order to make Mondays more interesting feel free to share ideas or feedback about the current events!

Speed Change:
- We had some players that didn't enjoy it and were asking to change it back to what it was. On the other hand, the majority of players asked to make it permanent. So we are going to keep with increased speed for now but we'll keep looking for some other options for the ones that didn't like it. If you have any suggestions, feel free to share!

Decreased Bodyshots:
- Great feedback about the event! But we haven't thought about it as a balance change, so no permanent changes for now.
- Some players were asking if we could change it only for Melee Classes, and I think it's a good idea, but what do I know? Haha. I'm going to talk to the devs about it too see if we can do something about it.
- Question for you guys: If we run the event again, should we use the same setup? 70% max Bodyshot during the week and 0% (except for Ranged Survivors and Armored Walkers) on Sunday?

Challenge Guild Rewards:
- I have no doubt that you would rather have more rewards than fewer rewards, haha. I do agree that having those new milestones with rewards that change every week (like in The Distance) would be always exciting, but we would be killing a cool event too.
IF we make this permanent, we would have to decrease the number/amount of tokens/gold rewards a bit. And then in order to make an interesting challenge event, we would have to add something else on top of that. And that is the kind of stuff that hurt us in the long run. :/
Long story short, I hear you! But let's see what we can do about it. :)

Did I miss something? Let me know!
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Comments

  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,832
    I'm very happy about the speed change, I was dreading going back to it today but it was never anything which had to stay.

    I think melee having a built in 30% decrease to body shots is the perfect way to balance them with ranged/piercing. I doubt it would be game breaking and it would make bruisers more useful for the challenge and even some late distance missions!

    The setup you had with 0% not kicking in until the Sunday is good as a decrease in body shots is a little detrimental to tactics in the distance. Saying that it would be interesting to try the distance with 0% body shots, so many of us have such a huge reliance on Sasha's leader trait so it would be nice to shake it up a bit and play through it without that!

    I can understand your point about decreasing the guild rewards, it promotes a rich get richer type of thing as whilst my guild was able to hit 30k* to get the legendary fragment we wouldn't be able to get this every week whereas DTP and co regularly hit that mark!
    aquilaDanski_46Jenngpradi
  • DLichDLich Member Posts: 5,526
    24,000 stars as a guild to get 150 Gold... That's 1200 stars average per player. That's getting to RSL 32 for most players. 150 Gold is basically healing 7 survivors. I think the Gold portion of 150 is suffice. What's $1.50 to NG when players who get to that part of the game are spending more than $1.50 to heal over the course of the challenge?

    Things this week were wonky in the sense that it was like the rules went out the window. For so long we are told things can't permanently change because of game balance etc...

    But imo @Kaz (and thats what you want here... honest feedback right?) all this "throwing rules out the window and making crazy changes if even for a week" makes me think NG is out of ideas and just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.

    I hate to sound like a pessimist but it's not like NG is looking for a new way to boost sales or something. I don't quite know how to explain it, and as thankful as I am that this challenge had more rewards and less body shots I can't help but get this sense of "out of ideas" and just doing stuff to see what works.

    For a day (for the most part) interrupt worked again the way it used to. It's been over a year since it's worked that way and it'll probably be another long time until it works again that way.

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  • Shut_UpShut_Up Member Posts: 2,295
    edited May 2018
    > @Kaz said:

    > Decreased Bodyshots:

    > - Some players were asking if we could change it only for Melee Classes, and I think it's a good idea, but what do I know? Haha. I'm going to talk to the devs about it too see if we can do something about it.
    > - Question for you guys: If we run the event again, should we use the same setup? 70% max Bodyshot during the week and 0% (except for shooters and armored) on Sunday?
    >
    >
    > Did I miss something? Let me know!

    What did you mean by shooters? Did autocorrect change it from spikey?

    You seem to like the idea of melee survivors not having body shots but now at this point you and the dev team must decide between melee and ranged balance and not adding to the grind. It's a terrible situation because since body shots were introduced many players have been begging NG to let melee body shots scale up more slowly per level difference than ranged. It seemed like a reasonable balance between no body shots at all for melee versus the same body shot rate that affects ranged survivors.

    Don't let the increased speed become NG's answer to the grind. The grind still needs addressing but the increased speed was nice especially during the non combat portions of the game such as opening crates. It only helps with the symptoms of the grind and not the underlying problem.

    It looka like the recent drop in stock price below its initial public offering price has forced NG to do some rethinking.
    Putchuco
  • Runners_0648Runners_0648 Member Posts: 58
    I would say if just bruisers had the bodyshot ratio removed or greatly reduced. Give them back some offensive capability instead of just being a punching bag. Just being able to block for your teammates and leaving them to attack just isn't enough to justify giving updates a 3rd offensive survivor. Being able to stun high lvl walkers would do just that.

    As for the guild rewards I have to disagree. Speaking for myself I would rather have better guild rewards than a weekend event of better rewards.
    Maybe dbl radios could be a twist every now and then for a "Event".
    Also I don't understand why amounts would have to be reduced if it was permanent. Yes those were awesome rewards, but in the big picture it wasn't enough to make such a huge difference that it would effect balance or whatever reason it was for having them reduced.
    I understand the idea of wanting people to buy bundles with radios, gold, tokens, etc... and having a lot of rewards could possibly effect the sales in that area. However I believe that if the rewards were as good as last challenge a lot of people that usually wouldn't would buy gas and xp boosters, gold among other things to push higher into these rewards. Getting to the higher level guild rewards is not a easy task and requires a lot of time and effort from everyone on the team, so I think those rewards should reflect that, and getting 20 hero/class tokens, a few gold bars and trade goods just doesn't match the effort to get it.
    Danski_46
  • lyts1985lyts1985 Member Posts: 56
    I thoroughly enjoyed playing this week, for the first time in a long time.

    Truth be told, I don't think I realised how much of a brick wall the challenge becomes and how bored I'd become of it until Sunday, when bodyshots disappeared and the challenge became fun and interesting again.
    It allowed real experimentation and gave you the opportunity to play around with different hero/survivor/class combinations. The game has sorely missed that aspect. I'm not looking forward to the next challenge. Lol

    Likewise, the new reward system. Excellent. We saw people in the guilds encouraging each other to push on for the next batch of tokens or that elusive 150 gold bundle. People who rarely talk and aren't particularly competitive were suddenly nagging others to get stuck in and really worked for it themselves. Again, that sort of interaction and commitment is exactly what we need and what we've seen drop off as fatigue set in.

    I can see why NG wouldn't be keen on making the changes permanent; why buy gold or phones if you can earn them? If bodyshots are removed completely then there's less scope for gold purchases for healing, or maybe even less need for gas... but it's a pity.

    I really enjoyed playing this week. It's been a while since I felt that way rather than just going through the motions week in, week out. And if I enjoy something, I'm far more inclined to start spending on it again.
    Deathwish19theldssdlDrUnpleasant
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 250
    -Tomato monday was useful for me because i still need tomatoes. But for endgamers it could be better to have Xp or equipment scavenge bonusses.
    -Speed change is very good despite having a low end phone that sometimes lags.
    -Decreased bodyshots for melee is necessary to make them equally useful imo.
    Also interrupt can have a better chance at higher levels where it is really needed.
    But %0 bodyshots=Grind! We will need to spend all sunday with the game because of that, we need a life too :)
    -More guild rewards were nice and motivating. I see that may not be permanent. But radios and trade goods should be increased imo.
    romeoJenngbiter370
  • lyts1985lyts1985 Member Posts: 56
    If 3 rounds per pass became permanent then 0% bodyshots actually wouldn't make much difference at all to the grind. You'd end up doing roughly the same number of rounds each week, perhaps even less if you take 1min gas out of the equation.
    Kaz
  • ChevyChevy Member Posts: 1
    Loved everything about this week except the hiccup some players had with rounds not working right which hurt them for round passes and overall star counts for both player and guild. I liked tomato mo day as could spend the ones I’ve been storing because had nothing to spend on. I got a new personal best level and thought the no body shots was very helpful to get more players to push further. Overall I really liked it.
    Kaz
  • thisdoesfinethisdoesfine Member Posts: 360
    Whodoesntlikespeedimeancomeonitsgreat!
    Kazbigbeanodeb1hdbiter370
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,874
    Loved it all! If I knew that was coming in that format once every two months I would love it! I only fear you made it too good, now if you run it again and make it slightly less good it will be burned down as a "nerf". This was the most fun I've had on this game in a while! Keep it up! BUT! Sort out the TG issue, I
    Hate getting bloodied and bruised through +6 to get 900 trade goods! Come on man!
    biter370
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 250
    > @lyts1985 said:
    > If 3 rounds per pass became permanent then 0% bodyshots actually wouldn't make much difference at all to the grind. You'd end up doing roughly the same number of rounds each week, perhaps even less if you take 1min gas out of the equation.

    With 5 rounds per pass, i usually complete 30 rounds. That makes 6 passes and i play 24 rounds.
    With 3 rounds per pass, i completed 36 rounds. That makes 12 passes and next week i play 24 rounds again.
    Passes per 3 rounds were supposed to reduce the grind. This way i play the same amount of rounds and more difficult rounds. I admit that harder is more fun but it takes more time to play a harder round. As a result, in order to enjoy the game and to be a consistent player, one should almost devote his life to the game again.
    If sundays become %0 bodyshots, round passes per 2 rounds or 1 rounds will eventually be asked.
    %0 bodyshots also can mean junking the enormous effort put into pink stars and Sasha.
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,832
    edited May 2018
    Yeah I agree, if body shots are removed permanently then it would need to be balanced further. I earned 7 extra round passes last week but I also played 7 extra rounds. Whether it's increased walker health, increased round passes, removal of the .3 round etc.

    As much as I enjoyed last week I don't want to go back to playing 40+ rounds every single week and having to buy a gas booster to get near to hitting the proverbial wall. Plus imagine all the time spent on getting survivors up to 3/4/5 pink stars only for it to be taken away :lol:
    romeoDBones
  • sbfsbf Member Posts: 466
    @Kaz

    -YES for tomato Mondays. I'm a max level player and have had my tomatoes full for weeks. With an update coming, I don't buy any gear for tomatoes, and I didn't buy them this time either. It's great for other players who are willing to spend tomatoes, and it is GREAT for players who are not maxed out by offering more tomatoes in missions. It's a keeper. (Also, if someone is maxed, then spends tomatoes, then an update happens with building upgrades, they may buy boosters or a full tomato bundle with $)

    -Please do keep the faster speed, it's not all that different, but it's helpful. I make walk-through videos and any less time it takes to show how I'm getting through is better than it being slow af.

    -I loved the decreased body shots. It wasn't too unlike a class boost in terms of getting getting our teams farther than without a weekly boost, so I thought it was within the range of weekly events that we have. It helped melee a lot, and I played past 36.1 using melee on three of the maps (before no body-shot day happened)... I would love to see something like it applied to our melee survivors. DO NOT GIVE US A MELEE SURVIVOR TRAIT THAT ACTS AS PIERCING, THUS NULLIFYING OUR CURRENT CREWS. We did that with ruthless, which is a must-have, and with punish on bruisers.

    -As for the day of no body shots, combat mechanics were different for sure, and it was enjoyable to figure out what worked and what didn't. I was still finishing missions with an all melee crew on 3 maps and I reached rsl40 by the end of it. It would add hell to the grind to make this permanent overall... but I also wouldn't like this all that much as a recurring end-of-challenge event unless there are concessions given to us to reduce the grind... 54 rounds was too much and I dropped some stars before the event that I would have easily gotten if I had played slowly and crammed everything into Sunday.

    -Guild rewards like this week need to be at least once a month. It boosted morale, which needs to happen regularly. Reduced gold crates for guild members are always welcome. Before the no body shot day event happened, I offered to buy a gold crate for the guild whenever anyone got a new personal best (based on the UC format, not the old one)... let's just say that by the end of it I had to buy quite a few crates. Obviously I could have created different parameters, but instead I bought some gold and showed quite a bit of appreciation for all of my guildmates.
    romeoDanski_46TroublemakerKillersZ
  • lyts1985lyts1985 Member Posts: 56
    > @aquila said:
    > > @lyts1985 said:
    > > If 3 rounds per pass became permanent then 0% bodyshots actually wouldn't make much difference at all to the grind. You'd end up doing roughly the same number of rounds each week, perhaps even less if you take 1min gas out of the equation.
    >
    > With 5 rounds per pass, i usually complete 30 rounds. That makes 6 passes and i play 24 rounds.
    > With 3 rounds per pass, i completed 36 rounds. That makes 12 passes and next week i play 24 rounds again.
    > Passes per 3 rounds were supposed to reduce the grind. This way i play the same amount of rounds and more difficult rounds. I admit that harder is more fun but it takes more time to play a harder round. As a result, in order to enjoy the game and to be a consistent player, one should almost devote his life to the game again.
    > If sundays become %0 bodyshots, round passes per 2 rounds or 1 rounds will eventually be asked.
    > %0 bodyshots also can mean junking the enormous effort put into pink stars and Sasha.
    >

    So you'd be playing the same amount of rounds but less of the mind numbing early rounds. That doesn't increase the grind at all.
    Yes, you'd reach a higher difficulty, and quicker too, but without bodyshots it wouldn't be as difficult as before.

    The grind, to most people, is that boring part of the challenge that you breeze through til it actually gets interesting or challenging. This addresses that by introducing more passes so you skip more easier rounds and get to the fun bit quicker. Made even more fun by virtue of the reduced bodyshots.

    To me it seems perfect. Why wouldn't you want that? We've been crying out for them to reduce the number of boring rounds at the start but without reducing our star count. This does just that. Perfect.

    If, as you say, they offered a pass every two rounds then after 36 rounds you'd have 18 passes and play +/-18 next week. But those +/-18 rounds will be harder. Lower level players would be hit especially hard... their challenge would be over by Friday!

    3 passes plus no bodyshots is perfect in my opinion...

    Same amount of game time
    Less boring rounds and more interesting rounds
    Get to the challenging/interesting part quicker
    More stars (for those who worry about star loss) thanks to the additional round passes and 2x stars
  • theldssdltheldssdl Member Posts: 114
    Just wanted to say this past Sunday was the most fun I’ve had playing a challenge in a long time. I think no body shots would be a stellar weekend event to run regularly.
    PicDanski_46Japes87
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 250
    @lyts1985 , i got your point and you are right, easy rounds are definitely grind. But being have to play too much is also grind imo, that is what was trying to tell.
    Passes per 3 round is really good since i won't play those easy rounds and in less playing time i will push my team to the limits.
    0 bodyshots and 3 passes per round is way better than previous 5 passes per rounds. But i prefer to give less of my time to be able to see my limits each week. I prefer to play a harder and less time consuming TWD NML according to the old system, this is just my opinion.
  • CBgaming1969CBgaming1969 Member Posts: 1,359
    @Kaz I think the 0 bodyshots should be a week long event teamed up with 1 min gas at least once a year maybe twice or even quarterly.

    The surprise was super nice, but i spent a ton of gold a quick healing on Saturday and unable to play most of Sunday.

    I would love to have a Saturday and Sunday surprise 0 bodyshots so it would include the Distance too as a random event.
    CaptainslayerDavid_H79
  • Japes87Japes87 Member Posts: 1,399
    @Kaz Brilliant.
  • TroublemakerTroublemaker Member Posts: 1,257
    > @Kaz said:
    > Thanks for the feedback about my feedback about your feedback!
    >
    > - I think capping the bodyshots at 70% is definitely an interesting event. But I think the 0% chances only work as a surprise event, don't you agree? If we announce that beforehand, wouldn't then people wait to play all their missions on a Sunday (when it'll be easier)? And I'm not saying this is a fact, but just a thing that got me thinking.
    >
    > - I don't have an answer about the new Guild Rewards being permanent or not yet, but I'll have a meeting to discuss it this week. Either way, this can certainly become a frequent event in NML. :)

    Yes and no. If this event happens again and you don't have a clear decision about 0 or 70% I'll delay playing until sunday. I don't thinkg this can be good to anyone.

    I take myself as example: I burned a lot of gold to push the challenge early on and got trampled over by mates that delayed playing and ended up at the same RSL with 40-60 more stars than me and without wasting any gold. This was NOT fair or nice.

    Discuss it please.
    ::
    Mavericks Guild Family
    sbf
  • DodkongDodkong Member Posts: 1,048
    Each week I stop at the same spot in the Challenge, barring a useful event like the 0% bodysuits.

    So knowing where I will stop,. I always leave my last two rounds to finish on Sunday in case my daily quest requires challenge missions to be finished.

    For me, having a surprise event on only Sunday won't hinder my progress in the slightest, and in the case of the 0% body's hot, allowed me to surpass my normal ending point.

    Bring on the surprise Sunday only events, imo.
    "I always say, if you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips." -Birgitte Silverbow, The Fires of Heaven, The Wheel of Time

    "Death is lighter than a feather. Duty, heavier than a mountain." - al'Lan Mandragoran, The Great Hunt, The Wheel of Time
    JenngDanski_46DBones
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