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Fantastic @JackBauer -- I also have no intentions of testing that out with Jerry, but I'd imagine his Damage Reduction is applied in a similar way as Defensive Stance. The probably explanation I got as why Damage Reduction doesn't just add up is because IS and Badges are calculated when the mission screen loads, and Defensive Stance is then applied at the time of it activating...Jerry's Trait would fit into that later equation, as does DR in Cover (which is now supposed to be 35%, or 30%, not 50%).

But then that also makes me wonder about the Critical Chance from Sure Shot/Power Strike...if the Critical Chance from Base/Accurate/Badges/Lucky is determined at loading screen, then is Critical from Sure Shot then calculated in a similar way as DS...or since Critical Attacks are always being "rolled" based on factors like Walker Level Difference, is it immune to this kind of funky math?? More questions that I hope someone else will answer....

@OneLessTitan . I didn't test this myself. @Monsuta was under the impression Jerry's trait actually doesn't belong to "damage reduction". If @tabernac could put in jerry as leader this could easily be tested.

@jimmorrison369 - Sure, I can do some testing, but I never use Jerry so I want to make sure I go about this the right way. Would I just need to let a Level 26 Fattie whale away on my Bruiser while Jerry is standing directly behind my Bruiser? Do we get a "Bodyguard" word bubble or something that indicates when Jerry's trait triggers?

Yes, @tabernac, that is basically how it works. So I did a little test myself too.

If my theory would've been correct. It would halve the end damage, basically getting "90%" damage reduction. This didn't happen at all. The lvl26 walkers did 220 to 250 damage. No matter if bodyguard happened or no...

So to conclude, bodyguard does halve your damage, but it abides to the max damage reduction laws of the universe.

You could double check, but you'll prolly come to the same conclusion.

OK, ran some more testing (probably a little more thorough than necessary, but what the hell). I was delayed a bit because i ran in to @UrWaLkNDeAd 's outpost and got hospitalized. Jesus, his/her Outpost is a nasty piece of business...

Ran tests using my Level 24 Bruiser with Defensive Stance.

Survivor Stats:

Gold Iron Skin on Armor = 15% Iron Skin Trait = 17% Defensive Stance Trait = 51%

( All strikes are from a Level 26 Fattie while in Overwatch. No Criticals, No Body Shots. All Normal strikes)

Bruiser with DR Badges equipped (36% Damage Reduction) - No Jerry

So confusing with all this math sometimes.. maybe someone like @Kaz can confirm if it adds or multiply

It doesn't do either. The answer to my original question is "neither".

There seems to be a two-stage process of damage reduction. In the first step, Iron Skin and damage reduction badges are added together and that percentage is removed from the damage. In the second step, the Defensive Stance percentage is removed from whatever damage is left after step 1.

So they don't multiply; if tney did, DS wouldn't work at all if you had no Iron Skin and no DR badges (zero multiplied by anything is zero). Peversely, the effect of Defensive Stance is inversely proportional to the IronSkin+DamageReduction total.

If a survivor has no Iron Skin and no Damage Reduction badges but 30% Defensive Stance and is hit for 100 damage, then DS will remove 30 damage points, leaving 70. But if you add a 10% damage badge (with no set bonus, to keep the arithmetic simple), then the damage badge will remove 10 points and DS will only remove 27 (because 30% of 90 is 27). The survivor is better off (damage has been reduced to 63 points) but DS is actually doing less.

Worth explaining again because I'm still encountering people who have read this thread and think Defensive Stance multiplies damage reduction.

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@David_H79 , yesterday while playing a distance mission, Jerry was standing next to a bruiser. On that turn Jerry died, bruiser was hit and "bodyguard" popped up above her.

## Comments

758Looking for a guild? The Den is the place to be!

We bring the fun back! Game Tips and Videos! Common interest non-game related chats too!

Everyone is Welcome!

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Shivas Den: semi-competitive / relaxed Maggies Den: training and growth

Email us to make our home your home: [email protected]1,550Remember to use your charge abilities

1,273YouTube Channel

1,550Remember to use your charge abilities

1,550Next step would be to calculate how much IS+DRB is needed in case that Jerry Leader Trait Kicks in.

I am not planning to do that.

Remember to use your charge abilities

1,273But then that also makes me wonder about the Critical Chance from Sure Shot/Power Strike...if the Critical Chance from Base/Accurate/Badges/Lucky is determined at loading screen, then is Critical from Sure Shot then calculated in a similar way as DS...or since Critical Attacks are always being "rolled" based on factors like Walker Level Difference, is it immune to this kind of funky math?? More questions that I hope someone else will answer....

YouTube Channel

873,402-> That was child's play <-

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

Concordia

2,065I didn't test this myself.

@Monsuta was under the impression Jerry's trait actually doesn't belong to "damage reduction".

If @tabernac could put in jerry as leader this could easily be tested.

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/297434/#Comment_297434

8072,065So I did a little test myself too.

If my theory would've been correct.

It would halve the end damage, basically getting "90%" damage reduction. This didn't happen at all. The lvl26 walkers did 220 to 250 damage. No matter if bodyguard happened or no...

So to conclude, bodyguard does halve your damage, but it abides to the max damage reduction laws of the universe.

You could double check, but you'll prolly come to the same conclusion.

807Ran tests using my Level 24 Bruiser with Defensive Stance.

Survivor Stats:

Gold Iron Skin on Armor = 15%

Iron Skin Trait = 17%

Defensive Stance Trait = 51%

( All strikes are from a Level 26 Fattie while in Overwatch. No Criticals, No Body Shots. All Normal strikes)

Bruiser with DR Badges equipped (36% Damage Reduction) - No Jerry

Strike 1 = 228

Strike 2 = 275

Strike 3 = 240

Strike 4 = 279

Strike 5 = 271

Strike 6 = 273

DR Badges equipped (36% Damage Reduction) - With Jerry and Bodyguard Triggers

Strike 1 = 261

Strike 2 = 276

Strike 3 = 247

Strike 4 = 259

Strike 5 = 280

Strike 6 = 249

With Jerry and Bodyguard triggers - NO badges equipped

Strike 1 = 271

Strike 2 = 272

Strike 3 = 252

Strike 4 = 276

Strike 5 = 228

Strike 6 = 284

426We really need the character stats screen that shows and adds up all our numbers !

263There seems to be a two-stage process of damage reduction. In the first step, Iron Skin and damage reduction badges are added together and that percentage is removed from the damage. In the second step, the Defensive Stance percentage is removed from whatever damage is left after step 1.

So they don't multiply; if tney did, DS wouldn't work at all if you had no Iron Skin and no DR badges (zero multiplied by anything is zero). Peversely, the effect of Defensive Stance is inversely proportional to the IronSkin+DamageReduction total.

If a survivor has no Iron Skin and no Damage Reduction badges but 30% Defensive Stance and is hit for 100 damage, then DS will remove 30 damage points, leaving 70. But if you add a 10% damage badge (with no set bonus, to keep the arithmetic simple), then the damage badge will remove 10 points and DS will only remove 27 (because 30% of 90 is 27). The survivor is better off (damage has been reduced to 63 points) but DS is actually doing less.

Worth explaining again because I'm still encountering people who have read this thread and think Defensive Stance multiplies damage reduction.

1,359If in a distance mission Jerry gets killed or is used as a sacrifice. When he dies in mission, does his leader boost still stay active?

Very curious and that goes to all leader traits in distance.

@jimmorrison369 @tabernac @OneLessTitan @Kaz @Shteevie anyone else?

3011,3591,866If so, the trait can't be activated anymore.

5,874He takes exactly the same damage whether or not he's in overwatch, with minor variance due to rng.

Yes, I'm still looking for a bruiser I like without DS.

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301263@aquila Same turn isn't so surprising. What about turns after, though?

301105Is it max if I have 60% DR badges + 15% IS + Silver Tactical ( 10% less damage)?

1,080