Challenge Balance Test - Let's make this together!

KazKaz Member Posts: 1,423
UPDATE: Due to this week's challenge, we are postponing the faster progression next week. So the only difference next week is the Gas available in the Trade Goods Shop after every restock.

For the first week (November 21st), we would like to try:
- More Gas in the Trade Goods Shop after every restock.

-----

Hey, everyone!

We have some interesting plans that we want to run next week already, but I want to present it to you beforehand so we can make some adjustments if necessary.

So we have a month-long event (or longer) including different tweaks not only related to the challenges but also towards the game itself. Here's what we have planned:

- Triple Rounds per difficulty start later*
- Double Rounds per difficulty start later*
- Start the challenge at a higher difficulty*
- Special Walkers on each wave
- Gas as a reward in the Distance (it'll be added on top of what you normally get)
- More Gas in the Trade Goods Shop after restock
- Extra Challenge day (Ending on Tuesday instead of on Monday)
- Something more we come up with

*Including rewards readjustment.

We don't wanna run all those suggestions at the same time, but making small changes every week. So the process we would like to run would be like:
-> Announce what's coming next -> Play (Test) it -> Collect Feedback -> Try something else or improve the previous week -> Repeat

I understand that the most requested changes are the ones that require development time and options that gives more freedom to the player, but we want to check what we can improve for now since Guild Wars is coming soon. So please, bear with us. I'm sure we can build something better together. :)

Thanks for reading!

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Comments

  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 2,140
    Other than that appreciate the work and trying things out 👍
    Bill_ZRT1Risaafr99anthony172crambert_necJenngKatz_Killers18J_Lawribnreef
  • 8900rpm8900rpm Member Posts: 120
    Less rounds is a good idea. More gas in the shop is great. Unfortunately, completing less rounds will mean less TGs earned to purchase said gas... But I can live with that.
    TCBRITOribnreef
  • NarniaNarnia Member Posts: 66
    I will be sure to offer my feedback after assessing these changes as they come.

    Thank you for the heads up @Kaz will there be other threads for thoughts and opinions in regards to these changes?
    ShadowaceAzRookiellJ_Law
  • andy75andy75 Member Posts: 262
    > @bladgier said:
    > "- Special Walkers on each wave"
    >
    > No, please don't 🙏

    Agreed. But other than that it sounds ok
    romeoNarniaWellyLugabladgierBelgarathJ_Lawenigma12
  • DragonfyreDragonfyre Member Posts: 117
    Maybe because making the star count 300 or so is the new norm? And 1 or 2 days of play to max out and play another game? Especially end gamers who do not have God mode survivors?
    Some do still enjoy getting stars and rewards which every time have proven with the UC's and other attempts at change to not change or be a lot less. Disheartening to the player who is not a major player to play for a few crates and game over
    @Dragonfyre (Leader/Dragons Weyr)
    zivaoliviaDeathwish19DrhooJ_Law
  • Stalker20Stalker20 Member Posts: 1,290
    It's not just about star counts for me, the amount of post mission crates is much lower and also tg which we all need for upgrading survivors. Not a good way to go for all except the top 10%.
    TCBRITOzivaolivianaeljaJ_Law
  • RobotelRobotel Member Posts: 65
    Hi guys..at the beginning of the game in 2015 there was only 1 round per level and now are 2 until 27 and after 3 . I think more the 2 rounds per level is a bullshit thats why i agree with this change . For old players will be better only 1 round like in 2015 but we can live also with 2 rounds until 32 . We old players are bored with 3 rounds !!!!!!!!!!!!
    capibaraTJSTCBRITONerfZone187romeorevelationsDrhooLevJ_LawAntony23
  • DjinnDjinn Member Posts: 168
    Is it april fools day already? 😁

    Line id: djinn1982
    MadibigbeanoJenngFingerfoodnaeljaTweetyBirdJ_Law
  • NarniaNarnia Member Posts: 66
    I'm a fan of the suggestion of players picking their starting RSL every challenge, and then are required to master that set, and if they do, they get awarded in stars only, the amount of stars from RSL 1 to the chosen RSL of completion. If they cannot, there should be a reset button to try a lower starting RSL.
    Reflecting upon this challenge structure, the following all can occur:
    If I want to start on 18 and gain tomatoes, I can
    If I want to start on 28 for XP, I can
    IF I want to start on 40 (assuming I can 3* every map) I can. And I get awarded the appropriate stars for every previous RSL. This means if I don't have time on a given week, I can still enjoy my challenging levels while @Dragonfyre gets to start at level 1 if he wants to. Everyone is happy, everyone gets stars, and next Council and survivor upgrade, there won't be any challenge tweaks needed.

    Those that choose to fast track sacrifice resources gained from the grind. It seems the balance would not tip much, if we could just try this method for a few weeks, it stands to reason that it would benefit everyone involved.
    ChevuTCBRITODragonfyreAdamski316MatasicaRookiellp_herianJ_Law
  • nadecirnadecir Member Posts: 271
    I gotta say this - and take this constructively @Kaz - but spending development resources to add another new game mode without fixing the challenge grind is like throwing gas on a dumpster fire.

    The most effective thing to do is to spend resources to fix the challenge grind first and then introduce another game mode to play in addition after the challenge system was fixed.

    NG has run countless challenge test scenarios before. There is no solution given the current challenge parameters (starting levels, round passes, triple rounds, etc.) that works for all players at all levels. Some players want to play more for more rewards, others want to play less but play competitively. Some people have busy weeks, others have more time to play in any given week. The present challenge system does not provide enough freedom to allow for this kind of flexibility.

    Guild wars make the overall game grind even worse, and this game may lose existing players to the increased time commitment to play the guild wars.

    The best viable challenge system solution is to let players select their own starting challenge level, and just count their top 30 rounds for challenge stars. If I were in charge of NG, I'd figure out how to invest development resources to do so. A short-term investment of additional development resources to fix the challenge system permanently would pay off with significant additional revenue in the long run. I have little doubt that there would be a positive ROI to adding more development resources to fix the challenge system permanently.

    I do hope the tests you propose work out somehow, but it's hard to see how any of these changes makes the game better for all players in this game.
    TroublemakerAdamski316zivaoliviaDeathwish19Katz_Killers18SpyKasimirALF4realsJ_Law
  • Cory314Cory314 Member Posts: 23
    edited November 2018
    As long as it's part of a rebalance, star count changes are fine, starting rounds etc etc, since it effects everyone, it doesn't make much difference.

    As far as rewards go, I find it strange that the further you go in the challenge the fewer the rewards. Early on, completely a round gives you trade goods and a couple boxes, later, when completing a round can take all day, that round may net you nothing but the trade goods and really not a lot of that.

    The other part of that, for non endgamers, is most of the equipment rewards just don't help. Ie, my level 19 survivors fight all day Sunday to get through 26.1, get a gold crate and level 16 or 17 armor pops up. That's similar to trade shop crates etc which are useless til max level.

    Anyway, changing the reward structure reversed would be good, less stuff for early stars and more later, right now, other than bragging rights there is no reason to fight for 40 more stars when the next crate is 80 stars away versus 6 or 18 stars away like round 1.

    Edit: make rewards more distance style, survivor level appropriate gear, space out some components etc, give me a reason to send a squad to the hospital for 2 hours on Saturday and Sunday.
    TJSStalker20Adamski316mr_MindKatz_Killers18SpyNezop_herianJ_Law
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 386
    > @Kaz said:
    > For the first week (November 21st), we would like to try:
    > - 3 Rounds per difficulty starts at level 32 (so you more difficulties with only 2 rounds).*

    @Kaz - I have asked 4 times if you could provide % of players reaching level 32 and I will ask once again. I know that those would be players that gives NG biggest revenue, but making changes only because of that won’t lead us anyway
    DragonfyreSpy
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,734
    > @WellyLuga said:
    > Thank God for this! Ill add my vote to the no special walkers, cheap tactics at making the challenge more challenging. Just think back to one of the first UC's with the dreaded hilltop map rammed with tanks/armoured :lol:

    That
    Was
    AWESOME!


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
    Adamski316ShadowaceAzJ_Law
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,734
    Now imagine @WellyLuga that Hilltop stage with a couple Exploders mixed in????


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
    WellyLugaromeo
  • abailey362abailey362 Member Posts: 304
    I am good with whatever setup comes to fruition, as long as it's consistent. there are a lot of ppl going into this week with a large number of round passes, and with the bruiser buffs this week, will have a large number going into next week. starting with 12-15 rp on a UC week means having to get to 35 or 36 before double star rounds end. then when it switches back to normal format, you have 6-9 rp and makes the low level grind even worse.


    it's been proven that there is no solution unfortunately that will satisfy everyone, so let's just stick to one and go from there.


    guild wars will require MAX (from the info provided in the interview video) 2.5 hours per person every 2 weeks, so that's not really adding anything major to the grind, much less than the distance currently does.

    and the great thing is, that you don't have to play it if it's too much. i choose to not play the distance. i know I miss out on rewards, but it's a choice I make - the same as not playing guild wars, or pushing to the higher rsl maps in challenge, etc.


    and to those that say the game needs to cater to f2p players more than p2p, remember that there would be no development team if everyone was f2p, or you'd have to watch 2 ads between every map, or other crazy stuff that games on the market currently do.
    abailey362 - TheHerdReturned - part of #THR Family



    ATLAS-ZDeadheadsOzzy99Deathwish19crambert_nec
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,734
    edited November 2018
    > @abailey362 said:
    >and to those that say the game needs to cater to f2p players more than p2p, remember that there would be no development team if everyone was f2p, or you'd have to watch 2 ads between every map, or other crazy stuff that games on the market currently do.

    I would like to add that this is not a black and white situation, the pay scale isn't 0 or a gazillion $$

    Most people fall in between, but if the gazillions always win, ALWAYS... That's a problem bro.


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM
    romeo
  • DrhooDrhoo Member Posts: 133
    Agree with Dragonfyre
    Again higher difficulties only to please endgamers ;((
    Getting stars for guild is so wrong....
    DragonfyreTJSSCBMA
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 301
    edited November 2018
    Awesome news, thanks @Kaz .
    My only concern is having difficulties with this ultimate challenge type setup after a normal challenge week in which we get lots of round passes. Only the first week though.
    With these changes we can face a real challenge instead of very easy rounds of grind. Altough i'm almost an endgamer now, i've been hoping for these changes since i had decently badged level 20 toons.
    TCBRITOJ_Law
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