The customer is always right

Apparently NG doesn't think so. It's a very basic concept. Keep the customer happy and they will keep supporting your product. Running a very poor business model by staying silent on issues, not being transparent and refusing to investigate further in light of new evidence does nothing but dissuade and discourage people. I would suggest if you want to keep players happy and spending, work with them instead of dismissing their concerns. It's simply a matter of principle.
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Comments

  • CaptoonCaptoon Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 56
    edited July 23
    Your problem being... what exactly?
    Lots of pretty words with little substance.
    I don't necessarily disagree but this is just ranty.
    DonCoquibigbeano
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    My problem being, even if I invest money and get shit rerolls that are random, I would be okay with that. The PROBLEM is, they aren't random in all cases so they have no right to be taking people's money under false pretenses. The decision to not even bother to investigate further when many more people are experiencing this is negligent.
    romeoRiotZappa
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/40772/thanks-but-no-thanks#latest

    How about this for another example? Fluxxx contradicting himself and then backtracking.
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,939
    Respectfully disagree.
    Basic concept but not correct in my point of view.
    Most of the times maybe yes but not always. I bet people working in retail and hospitality etc. will agree.

    I mean NG doesn't always do the right thing but I bet any money that they keep on doing what's best to keep the game/company going.

    Point is, if they granted every of our wish, that would probably hurt their "economy" and the game, to the point where company would be out of the market by now.
    DonCoqui
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,939
    En example of customer not being right, I saw that today

    Pretty extreme but proves my point.
    DonCoqui
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    Yes it is an extreme example. Which makes it irrelevant. The customer is always right when there's a legitimate case to be made. In this case, there is. Refusing to look into the reroll issue again or acknowledge it as a possibility is negligent.
    DonCoquibigbeano
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    "We also tried to reproduce the issue repeatedly on all our devices (one test shown below), and it also seemed to work as intended there (the majority of the time we got different traits, a few times we got the same ones)."

    How is that even a proper test or way of gauging the situation? It doesn't sound very thorough to me. Who is to say this was the case when there are no statistics on it?
    Firekid
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    How else would you have them test it, other than making repeated rerolls on various devices? There really aren’t that many traits to choose from so chances of getting the same traits is quite high. What exactly would make you believe them when they say it’s just bad luck?
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 396
    Specifically about the reroll tokens I believe the entire process is flawed in the sense the tokens are very hard to find AND they are extremely expensive to purchase. This would be bad enough even if we were guaranteed the ability to choose the trait we wanted, but this is not the case it is a luck of the draw, which may or may not have a flawed RNG. Then on top of that add in the fact if we decide to decline the two choices we get we lose ALL of the reroll tokens AND send the previously declined traits back into the mix. And wait it doesn't stop there, once we decide to accept a new trait the one we originally wanted to reroll goes back into the mix, even further diluting the probability we will get the 2nd new trait we want. The odds are just so stacked against us to get a desired trait this makes the cost way to prohibitive IMO. So I will go along with the system as is since we really have not choice BUT I refuse to put another penny into reroll tokens ( I purchased the first day they were offered and for my 300 tokens got one desired trait and "settled" for a couple others.)
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    Zettepsychwolfand98Dodkong
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,939
    Even when example is extreme, it doesn't make it irrelevant.
    There can be "legitimate case to be made" which is subjective from your point of view. It's also very general and one sided statement.

    There's also obcejtive side of things which considers both sides.

    That takes us to the point when there's always 2 sides of every story.

    Whan can be "legitimate" or "right" from your side of things, it doesn't mean it actually s from the objective point of view.



    You say they,"refused to look into the reroll issiue" but they actually didn't and they looked into it and reassured us few times that's being looked into.

    "
    "We also tried to reproduce the issue repeatedly on all our devices (one test shown below), and it also seemed to work as intended there (the majority of the time we got different traits, a few times we got the same ones)."


    How is that even a proper test or way of gauging the situation? It doesn't sound very thorough to me. Who is to say this was the case when there are no statistics on it?"

    What more could they realisticly do to test it further?
    They have accounts with unlimited everything and they have the means to test it. They did.

    I do believe that if any rng system in the game was purposely rigged and worked on purpose to our failure to spend money, and the actual results was different from advertised, they would go out of business pretty quick for treachery.
    That is actually illegal and regulated.
    ZetteDonCoqui
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    @Billbam I’m sorry to disagree with you but I wouldn’t call reroll tokens hard to find. In fact we know exactly where to find them and can reroll a trait once every two weeks. Also they have been fairly generous giving us extra ones so far and looks like we are getting some from season mission repeats these coming weeks too. It may feel like they are hard to come by at the moment but they have only been around for just over a month and About to do my 4th reroll without buying any. Perfect hero’s shouldn’t be easy to come by.
    rogueDS
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    > @Firekid said:
    > How else would you have them test it, other than making repeated rerolls on various devices? There really aren’t that many traits to choose from so chances of getting the same traits is quite high. What exactly would make you believe them when they say it’s just bad luck?

    No the chance of getting the same traits are not "quite high" The chances are quite low as a matter of fact. Taking into account more reports of this happening warrants further "testing."
    romeo
  • bladgierbladgier Member Posts: 1,939
    Also, going to what you've mentioned what l happened in the other thread @psychwolf, regarding what @JayZ said regarding Fluxxx's statement I'd like to say this:

    He did say that "we are not planning to" and also he said "I can't make any promises"

    Which both are not 100% definite statements.

    He never said that it is not guaranteed to happen. He said that there's no plan and can't guarantee.

    Which leaves a room for pretty much anything to happen both ways.
    WellyLugaKarajoca
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    Sorry how are they low? There are only 6 other traits to actually choose from on a non hero bruiser? You get a choice of 2 of them? So 1/6 chance of one and 1/5 of the other. As the history of the previous roll is irrelevant you still have the same odds of getting those two traits are the same. Or am i missing something?
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    @bladgier
    "What more could they realisticly do to test it further?
    They have accounts with unlimited everything and they have the means to test it. They did.

    I do believe that if any rng system in the game was purposely rigged and worked on purpose to our failure to spend money, and the actual results was different from advertised, they would go out of business pretty quick for treachery.
    That is actually illegal and regulated."

    That is my point, they supposedly tested it. How can you say for sure they tested it in depth with no statistics to back it up? No transparency.
    I'm not even saying it's purposely rigged but if it was, who regulates it?
    Don't you think it would be a big headache for them to acknowledge there's a bug and have to deal with sorting out compensation when they could just brush it off as working as intended? Which seems to be suspect since the original thread was closed after many valid arguments were made.
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 396
    Firekid said:

    @Billbam I’m sorry to disagree with you but I wouldn’t call reroll tokens hard to find. In fact we know exactly where to find them and can reroll a trait once every two weeks. Also they have been fairly generous giving us extra ones so far and looks like we are getting some from season mission repeats these coming weeks too. It may feel like they are hard to come by at the moment but they have only been around for just over a month and About to do my 4th reroll without buying any. Perfect hero’s shouldn’t be easy to come by.

    IMO two weeks to collect one reroll (plus the hero tokens) then have the percent chance that is involved in getting the desired trait in my opinion does make the ability to reroll for a desired trait rare (true as a single token individually not rare just the total to reroll sorry I was not clear.) Based on percentages it could take many rerolls on average thus taking 6 to 8 weeks for one trait.
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    psychwolfromeo
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    > @Firekid said:
    > Sorry how are they low? There are only 6 other traits to actually choose from on a non hero bruiser? You get a choice of 2 of them? So 1/6 chance of one and 1/5 of the other. As the history of the previous roll is irrelevant you still have the same odds of getting those two traits are the same. Or am i missing something?

    "It was previously calculated that the odds of getting the same 2 traits for Morgan in the same order 2 times in a row are 1/8 * 1/7 = 1/56 or 1.79%"

    Are those high odds to you?
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    1 in 56. No not particularly high odds. Also it wasn’t Morgan you re rolled on. It was a non hero bruiser so 1 in 42 for that one.
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    Either way. I’m happy to trust NG on this one that they have tested it and couldn’t replicate it. See you in a years time when we have got all our A team sorted and are re rolling dwights traits just for the hell of it!
    rogueDS
  • kookaburrakookaburra Member Posts: 24
    This reroll thing has me soured on the game. It was hard to swallow watching some of my friends getting perfect traits right off the bat while I got one passable new trait. I will not be spending for those tokens again. Just plod along collecting them and rerolling when I have enough hero tokens to reroll. The gap between players widens. I agree with Bill about when a trait is turned down, it’s out of the pool until another is accepted. I also agree with Firekid, perfect heroes shouldn’t come easy...just some folks got them right away anyway.
    Zetteromeopsychwolf
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 396
    Firekid said:

    Either way. I’m happy to trust NG on this one that they have tested it and couldn’t replicate it. See you in a years time when we have got all our A team sorted and are re rolling dwights traits just for the hell of it!

    hahahaha very true
    image
    12 Guilds cover all skill levels & game motivations
    Our top 2 Global Guilds form a team of 40 Top 20 in Elite & Bottom 20 in Recon
    Private Message Billbam or Red111 to reserve your spot!

  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 1,724
    > @kookaburra said:
    > This reroll thing has me soured on the game. It was hard to swallow watching some of my friends getting perfect traits right off the bat while I got one passable new trait. I will not be spending for those tokens again. Just plod along collecting them and rerolling when I have enough hero tokens to reroll. The gap between players widens. I agree with Bill about when a trait is turned down, it’s out of the pool until another is accepted. I also agree with Firekid, perfect heroes shouldn’t come easy...just some folks got them right away anyway.

    I think this is the best way. It softens the blow getting nothing out of something you got for free. Anyone who got perfect heroes straight away likely spent a lot of money on them, unless they got lucky with their first re-roll on a survivor who was only one trait short of perfect.
    romeopsychwolfkookaburra
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 396
    As a free part of them game I can deal with it...just don't expect my money which by the way is my attitude to badge bundles, no way I buy those either when I get some many flat rate badges or worse yet an over abundance of CC badges. OK I am out.
    image
    12 Guilds cover all skill levels & game motivations
    Our top 2 Global Guilds form a team of 40 Top 20 in Elite & Bottom 20 in Recon
    Private Message Billbam or Red111 to reserve your spot!

  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 1,686
    Yeah I won’t buy reroll tokens or components bundles! Don’t often buy phone either but did today! And got feck all Daryl tokens grrr! Live and learn!
  • rogueDSrogueDS Member Posts: 143
    Did not read it all my bad so much.
    I will go back after post. I guess I got lucky on 4 sets of trait rerolls for heroes got punish for morhan,ruthless for michonne'punish for a bruiser and and one crap re roll for Morgan. It is odds
  • psychwolfpsychwolf Member Posts: 1,198
    It's not about good or bad rerolls. It's about turning down the first options and getting the same 2 options the next time you reroll on that trait.
    romeovshield50jimmorrison369
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