TDog Trait and confusion?!?

DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
in General No Man's Land Discussion
@Fluxxx or anyone else with actual knowledge. 

In the update notes. Says the damage from beat them up and punish stack.

but then below says beat em up is separate from punish. 

If damage stacks does it really mean 2 attacks? Chainsaw isn’t advertised as stacking and it’s two separate damage accounts.  So if it is truly two separate attacks then you get 2x chance of body shots and gaining charge points? So with festive bat if charged you get 1 charge attack, another normal attack, then punish and beat em up. Meaning you get 3 chances to get recharged by striking upwards of 9 enemies. 
Depending the answer this imo would make TDog the #2 bruiser in game and a must token up asap! 
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Comments

  • PastePaste Member Posts: 827
    Beat Em Up is an extra attack on top of Punish - so with Punish and Beat Em Up, a survivor will attack twice at the end of the enemy turn.


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  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    Paste said:
    Beat Em Up is an extra attack on top of Punish - so with Punish and Beat Em Up, a survivor will attack twice at the end of the enemy turn.


    Look at right above that the damage stacks. That kinda contradicts 
  • GradyGrady Member Posts: 149
    It's confusing to me too. If you normally punish for 5000 damage.

    With T-Dog, are you now punishing for 10000 + 10000 damage (since the damage 'stack') or
    5000 + 5000 damage? (if stack just mean two hits)
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    The main key is if it’s two hits then it’s two chances to get charged with Sasha in lead. And therefore if you use festive you have 3 chances to get charged. Which normally you will end up charged. 

    Last week TDog would have been a beast when 3 maps require a wall with RPG burning in the back. Imagine guaranteed stun almost every turn. 
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 827
    edited July 2020
    We know having both punish + beat em up gives you two attacks at the end of the enemy turn. The trait description ("The damage of Beat Em Up and Punish stacks additively.") can be read in two ways, but if it actually gave you such a damage boost I think they would have made that one of the selling points (not that we really want a damage boost for bruisers).

    Guess not (see below)
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  • FluxxxFluxxx Community Manager, Staff Posts: 1,107
    Hey guys, so Beat Em Up actually does not grant you an extra attack on top of Punish, it adds the damage on top of it. You can only throw out one attack at the end of the enemy turn.
    This was a misunderstanding on my part, so I apologize for the confusion 😅
    Will add a correction on the updates and bring this up in the discussion thread as well.
    Vovroxyy141ghost_pepperKyrusT_12
  • FluxxxFluxxx Community Manager, Staff Posts: 1,107
    The unique part about him is that he adds Punish to all melee classes with much better damage scaling, and you don't need to have punish on him in the first place which leaves room for another trait. Whether that fits into some strategies or not is a different matter. Bruisers in general are pretty strong in their current state so, at least for now, his LT will remain as it is.
    PasteJordanYukiroxyy141Goptus_kfSarge_KyrusRiotZappaT_12
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 1,089
    Fluxxx said:
    The unique part about him is that he adds Punish to all melee classes with much better damage scaling, and you don't need to have punish on him in the first place which leaves room for another trait.

    It doesn't really leave room for another Trait though, for T-Dog anyway, he will still basically have just 5 traits (or 4 traits and super buffed Punish if you reroll it on him). He can add Punish to others and save them from having Punish, but you usually have Punish on Bruisers anyway. He has the same problem as Ezekiel now, they're both basically "normal" survivors with five traits. It would definitely be better if it was an extra attack, but I offer another small suggestion; add Strong to his LT ( and Iron Skin to Ezekiel :wink: ). It's a small buff that would allow him to have 6 traits (or 5 but 2 would be buffed) just like Gabriel. And before people start saying adding strong on bruisers isn't good, the idea behind this is that T-Dog would be leading Scouts or Warriors, who will benefit from Strong and getting an extra attack with Beat em Up.
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    Or give him a health boost to where he has extra health compared to other bruisers say a multiplier of .20. 

    Then he can be leader on certain maps with more health that RGG, and you gain punish for scouts, but don’t start charges. 
    ShadowWalkerVerdao1914
  • jrodrf2jrodrf2 Member Posts: 335
    What if you left it as adding the single punish attack the whole team, but tweaked it allow characters to punish walkers that are "in range" (i.e. DT and Spears) instead of "adjacent." I feel like that could open up some different strategies.
    LoneWanderer360RiotZappa
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 1,089
    You know it's funny, NG basically gives us what we ask for and we still bitch about it  :lol:

    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/39724/negan-s-leader-trait

    I suppose the negative feedback is due to Fluxxx mistakenly saying it's an extra attack. Also "Beat Em Up" looks better when it's replacing an old Leader Trait, instead of being on a brand new hero.
    Burmeliinis
  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 1,089
    Oh I just thought of this. What if Beat Em Up not only added Punish, but also a % chance to stun a foe for an extra turn, that stacks with concussion?
    cyclon98Shezza10
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @ShadowWalker see that would work!!! Negan is trash so anything is better lol.

    and you are right fluxxx typing it wrong or misunderstanding killed TDog. I asked the question cause fluxxx contradicted himself in two lines

    A Chance to 3 turn stun a walker would be extreme!!! IMO that would instantly beef him back to being #2/3 bruiser. 
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,153
    edited July 2020
    Fluxxx said:
    The unique part about him is that he adds Punish to all melee classes with much better damage scaling, and you don't need to have punish on him in the first place which leaves room for another trait. Whether that fits into some strategies or not is a different matter. Bruisers in general are pretty strong in their current state so, at least for now, his LT will remain as it is.
    The fact that there needs to be a unique thread about this for TDog should speak really loudly. Discussing it on the 3.9 thread is not enough. 

    Bruisers do not work at all in early play because they do not do enough damage and no one can get them to 80% dr. Now you are trying to fix the damage part but he still doesn't get the 80% dr. Early players won't play him. They won't have the tokens anyway.

    Mid players down for the grind play maggie glenn givernor for scavange and some combination of power characters. He won't be one of those.

    End game players won't touch a radio to him if you do x4 guaranteed tokens. Just like they wouldn't do x4 for Ezekiel. This argument has been made very clear.

    If you want us to play him, he needs to have more.

    Solution A
    Build razor into his LT trait as well. This way he can use items that don't have razor because he already has it. This alone would not make him very playable as leader unless you buff his LT razor to higher than 45%. Put it at something meaningfully higher, like 60%. This would require premium badges for a mele crew going up against a wall of fatties and spikes while introducing the ability to have more room on the weapons equipped since razor is in TDogs LT. Maybe some players go with concussion, others with extra damage and still others with interrupt. Maybe it's a good thing not having us throw out 94% of mele items just because the traits aren't usable. I don't mean perfect, i mean usable. Maybe if we have the option to hoard potentially fun items that might give end gamers something to do with xp too.

    Solution B
    Give TDog an escalation in damage buff AND in his punish buff which have an incremental gain that is astonishing in the higher levels. If you ever played FFX and remember blitzball, that game within a game, watta (or whatever his name was) the goal keeper was one of the worst offensive players in the game, statistically. But if you spent 6 months playing this game within a game, you could level watta to 99 and at the last level statistically he became the best player in the game, frighteningly so. Very few FF players would ever do something like this but completionists are out there. HDaryl gets 200% dmg at full 5 stars prowl i think. And he gets 8 squares to move with and avoid getting hit. Make TDog absolutely damage nuts at higher levels. Give players something to chase and keep us playing. If someone wants to buy him at 5 stars for $10,000 dollars through yorr radios slot machine system, i say let them fund the game so you can get paychecks. I'm cool with that.

    More solutions are possible.

    Kiting or playing lead with beta are more practical mele solutions than even a substandard buff to a generic TDog at this point. Don't make the T in Tdong stand for Turd. Please!

    Please remember that one moment in the comic book with him in what i think was a basketball court or gymnasium. Honor him for that. I know you're show focused but please, do the right thing by TDog. He is more of a bruiser than any of the others will ever be. He set the standard others have had to meet. You know I'm right.
    Sarge_Sg_Death
  • Edd8Edd8 Member Posts: 135
    NML development team is wasting time to give us another useless hero. Surprise surprise 
    KyrusRiotZappaT_12
  • JordanYukiJordanYuki Member Posts: 350
    ShadowWalker said:
    You know it's funny, NG basically gives us what we ask for and we still bitch about it  :lol:

    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/39724/negan-s-leader-trait

    I suppose the negative feedback is due to Fluxxx mistakenly saying it's an extra attack. Also "Beat Em Up" looks better when it's replacing an old Leader Trait, instead of being on a brand new hero.

    When posting ideas or liking other peoples ideas, I tell myself that if NG uses those ideas and something is missing, they’ll add something to it to balance it out. For exemple, people suggested they make a character that can move after opening a crate. They didn’t give us a new character with only that ability, they added it to Glenn Scout. Something similar to punish for a LT was a good idea but not a copy that adds damage on top of punish. T-Dog needs something for himself, another bonus or the extra attack. The extra attack was perfect imo. @Fluxxx
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,250
    Punish has had so many bugs since it first released, and now it seems like they have most of those bugs ironed out...

    maybe that's why they're hesitant to try and force some code that adds another layer of punishing?

    TDog does need something tho. 


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  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,153
    Solution C
    Damage buff to all mele. Punish damage buff for bruisers. Extra punish hit for bruisers. Punish hits work for bruisers so leave it that way and don't introduce bugs for warrior punish hits or scout rick punish spear hits.

    Solution D
    Charge hits provide heals to mele. Make a mele version of Tara. 

    Solution E
    Body shots give you a charge point. Make a mele version of Sasha.

    Is it a cop out to make a mele version of Tara or Sasha? No. I've seen old forum posts asking for this long before i ever joined. I like the idea of having these two mechanics available without being forced to generate threat. Yes i have winter bow for Tara but i still like the idea.
    Superhero
  • LoneWanderer360LoneWanderer360 Member Posts: 587
    A melee version of Tara would be awesome. Might make Morgan near invincible since he gains charge points after being hit.
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,153
    Fluxxx said:
    The unique part about him is that he adds Punish to all melee classes with much better damage scaling, and you don't need to have punish on him in the first place which leaves room for another trait. Whether that fits into some strategies or not is a different matter. Bruisers in general are pretty strong in their current state so, at least for now, his LT will remain as it is.
    @Fluxxx hey. Could you please let us know, is there any chance, any at all, of TDog getting a better trait in the time before release? No one wants to park their warriors or scouts in front of fatties and goos and spikies. Scout Rick with spear is the only possible option for new punish and i dont think it's going to be very popular compared to the alternatives. 

    Should we keep dreaming for santa claus or give up because krampus stole our shiny new toy?
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    @Fluxxx glad to see you discuss, but in meantime you are doing yourself a discredit. Your heavy hitters are unlikely to spend to Star him. 
    WellyLugaStalker20Paste
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,250
    You could let him take negan's place in the Bruiser call. 

    I might take his tokens if I roll a 256 and there's no Eugene RRG option.


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