Guild Wars. Where are we after 10 months ?

Karajoca · September 2020

Long time awaited, Guild Wars are introduced back in the game in January this year. Mode has a brand new format, different approach, "even playing field" (or at least it looked like that) and definitely it was success compared to GW we had before.
From a start there were mistakes, of course, and still there were things some people don't like, don't enjoy. Updates brought something new,trying to fix problems, to please everyone, but that again wasn't successful. One fixed problem - brings another one that will bother some different masses.

For me, biggest mistake was introducing tools, to still not well- established and accepted format. Tools, which hugely increase chances to finish mission while they can be obtained for money, and just like that from even playing field we got another pay to win, frustrating, devastating mode for most of the players.

5 seasons after, 10 months after introduction GW, i am writing this post where i want to sum up all my thoughts about it. I played every battle i could. I used all my swords. I won all my battles except two (Damn you red machine and mavs)
Excitement, Bright moments, rising as a team and a guild, really getting to know all your players ( and some enemies too) , amazing coordination, wins .... Awesome things happened. This mode kept most of us in the game.
But there is other side of the coin, which brings frustration, demotivation, killing the mood and desire to play to that point that many have quit .

I am writing this as my final appeal, beg, to understand and fix huge mistakes, before is too late. If this changes are not going to be implemented in next season, after game update, best would be not to have GW back at all. I am serious. It's killing the game, destroying guilds, making players quit

Needed Changes :

Ridiculous Leaderboard with wrong and unfair ranking system
Meaningless Leaderboard because it give everyone same rewards, you win the war, new war start tomorrow, and that's it, moving on, it was all for nothing
Brutal maps which "sell" tools,and milk players, but i wonder for how long ?
No chance to repeat at least 1 mission you failed, while game we are playing has many luck-based traits and combat and you can lose attacks no matter how good you are
Same maps over and over and starting to be boring
Bonus sectors meaningless for top guilds

Detailed explanation i will add in separate post

Karajoca · September 2020

Why is Ranking system so wrong ?

Team A play vs Team B in battle 10vs10. Result 8900 - 8800

Team C play vs Team D in battle 10vs10. Result 8500 - 8400

So, it's to assume that both Teams A&B are way better then C&D outscoring them by huge margin. But this doesn't need to be true. They played separated matches, they played different mapsets. Team A&B scored more just because mapset allowed them. There is enormous difference in points especially if we look at battles 10vs10 and i can't stress enough how important this is to change.

Believe it or not, it's enough just to have 3 "kill all walkers" missions on lvl44-46 and you have +200 advantage compared to team who played and won the battle on different mapset and had none of those maps. After win multipliers, difference is even bigger

So, we have unfair point system even if all teams play with same numbers through the season, but there is even bigger problem, and this is something i try to explain for months backwards, but got zero understanding and that is playing with 5,6,7 or 8 players is giving way bigger advantage in VP compared to play with 10. I am talking about ~2000 VP here per war, and makes me wonder how is possible that this is made like that and not fixed. It's just a calculation thing, or maybe few more 39-41 sectors missing on the map.

Victory points earned in battle must not be what decide the leaderboard! They stay in battle, win is a win. The way it is now, guilds who chase top of the rankings, can never rest, never stop, always finish all the hardest sectors, even when is not necessary to win which bring burnout

- If you win battle of 10, you should get 1000 Points for the rankings for example. Win battle of 8 - 800 pts, and so on. 4000 pts is maximum per war.

- Total VP obtained in battle can be "2nd deciding factor" and involved in case two teams has equal points from their wins.

- Matchmaking would still work the same, first looking for team who has exactly the same points then expanding range little by little

- Some smart smaller guilds can tactically avoid top guilds and have all wins for long part of season, but in current format, with 4 wars, sooner or later everyone should have a big match and potential defeat.

Still, play-off would be great to have on the end, but if not possible to implement then maybe just if 4th week is shortened to 4 days and force all guilds to play with 10 so the all undefeated teams must play against eachother and decide the champion.

I believe this can work and would like to hear thoughts

Karajoca · September 2020

Equal playing field is destroyed with introduction of tools.

Because no, 2 grenades claimed for free every week are nothing for this mode. Person who can afford 600 gold per week to buy 6 more, + occasional bundles when they pop-up in shop give a strong advantage. That ship has sailed.

So, why not allowing each player to have one, just one repeat in case of fail ?

There are so many reasons why this is important.

People play this game from work, from bus stations, from train, while waiting dinner, while sitting in coffee shop.
Players of this game developed routine, all modes are possible to pause, then pick up and continue whenever you want, but it's different with GW. It's different because missions are harder and you have to be fully concentrated when you play.
Someone interrupted you at work, or moving train makes you finger-slip, or kid press something on your phone...
Fail - and you disappoint whole guild. Stress. Frustration. You just wanted to enjoy your favourite game while doing all the other stuff in RL. But you couldn't be focused and this makes you quit.

No need to mention that even if you are fully into it, best in the game, you can still fail. Game is luck based, and it's really not needed much to go wrong while playing this maps(razor not working, dodge/hazard not triggering, sasha's LT doesn't charge anyone.... ) and you lose sword. And again, frustration, stress....

Having chance to repeat, just one mission, not more, can be a huge relief, give some more freedom and enjoyment to very frustrated players all-around the globe, in all kind of guilds. Everyone need this !

Karajoca · September 2020

And, this is what bothers me the most. I didn't brought up some other problems most of guilds are facing and suggesting and that is mostly making healing separated/cheaper. I support that too, just not priority for me. They can make healing cheaper or whatever, i still won't be playing challenge+GW at same time. This two modes just don't go together, one is taking already enough time, and i am sorry to say but there is no "pace of GW" that will make everyone happy.

Maps are starting to be overplayed and boring and having this many seasons as planned per year is just too much. 3 week long awaited break that is starting from monday may be enough to refresh players mind and motivation to continue. But i have no desire to play it again if nothing changes regarding point system and other stuff i mentioned.

Ok, my confession is over now

Burmeliinis · September 2020

I like the idea of one repeat mission. Especially if tools are removed and the retry is introduced instead.

WellyLuga · September 2020

Absolutely spot on. Being forced into playing all 6 days was something we refused to do and like you say, since the whole season is decided on VP you can't have an easy battle if you want to fight for top spot. It is baffling at the start of the season when everyone is at zero and you are miss-matched against a much lower guild, where we are pushing for 5H, 6F and 6G outscoring the enemy team by a huge margin. I would ask in the chat, why are we putting ourselves through it? Spending several tools to win a battle that is already won? We need it for the leaderboard. It is like a season of football, basketball, NFL or whatever being decided on goals, points or touchdowns rather than the matches you won. Absolutely ludicrous.

Tools, lets be honest - they're going nowhere. I'm fine with them being in the game, what I'm not fine with is that many of the maps are built in a way that makes them zero-skill, run through a brick wall type missions and some of them can be virtually impossible without them. I typed up the thread below 6 months ago, yes, 6 MONTHS AGO. Fluxxx commented that they would look at it, several updates go by and the maps have not been addressed in any way. Nothing has really. I am looking forward to seeing the patch notes as my decision on whether I continue playing the game hugely depend on it.

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/42726/imbalanced-maps.

ShayHa · September 2020

Need to separate healing time from GW and challenge. On the days I play GW I can barely do challenges since a lot of healing time.

Superhero · September 2020

Walkers seem to be much tougher compared to other game modes.

Troublemaker · September 2020

This game mode is terrible and can't be fixed.

Mario_Romero · September 2020

You are talking about issues with gameplay itself @Karajoca

But all that is meaningless if they can't even sort the technical side of the game mode out.

A few wars ago one of our players cleared all walker missions in 4E only for the missions showing as not done to everyone whilst the swords were gone of course.

Sent multiple messages to support and they refused to give any sort of compensation even for the lost 4E sector.

Now today one of our guys clears their last mission in a sector. And guess what? Shows as not being done. And sword is gone.

I wonder what they will say this time...

I think it's absolutely disgraceful that after 10 months of beta they haven't even sorted the technical side were attacks are always correctly registered (or even get manually added immediately if they are not).

So improving gameplay of this mode, i'm all for it, but first get it to work properly so you actually can play the game.

DiElEl · September 2020

I hope @Fluxxx is reading this thread, couldn't have said it any better...

JayZ · September 2020

Haven't read this thread yet, but the real question is: How did you even post in General Discussions? This broken ass forum doesn't let me start new threads here, only post comments...

Burmeliinis · September 2020

Why not just mix it up more. People are clearly getting bored of this format.

IDEA: Increase the difficulty of all missions (except PVP) by 1 level, but instead post the name of the map and all details at the selection screen.

So instead of "Kill Walkers and Exit" + Tank, say

Warehouse 1 + "Kill 15 and Exit" + Gate + Spawn piles + Threat Counter + 2 Tanks

Or keep difficulty as it is but remove the tools from the game. And add that one retry mission.

brucewayne007 · September 2020

@Karajoca
Tools are fine in the game. That’s no concern

its the fact people have 150 tools available to them within the match. It should be capped to 1 Medkit and 2 grenades.

I don’t like seeing a video where 1 person throws 5 grenades throughout and succeeds.

Tools add a different element of strategy. To push further. They don’t take away the skill, it’s a different element of strategy.

It’s the back to back weeks of Guild Wars that is ruining and water downing the product.

If they continue this the next GW, I will not participate back to back weeks. Much to the dismay of my team. I just don’t have the capacity or will to play that often.

I want to enjoy the journey. Not grind through it.

I’m only 1 person but if I’m 1 person who really enjoys the format. What would others think

So Fluxx if you are reading this. You do back to back weeks again I’m walking and playing in a lower team with little effort. I can’t maintain it.

Karajoca · September 2020

I have no problem with tools. They indeed has some strategy effect, give more options in mission, need skill to use the best out of it. Agree with all that @brucewayne007 But to have an option to use them - you have to buy them.
We had even field before. You have 18 attacks, i have 18 attacks - let's fight. Now you have 18 attacks and 10 tools, i have 18 attacks and 50 tools. That's not the proper fight anymore and not something i want to be involved in.
What i wish is to have more tools obtainable in game, we can farm radios,components,tomatoes...why not this ?

I don't think Back to Back weeks are a problem at all. It's general tiredness of this mode, which is pushed and pushed, while still not set right, contain bugs, visual or real,bringing consistent frustration and stress because it screams "i must play, can't fail my guild" or "if i lose sword we will lose battle", or checking game nonstop to see if your guildmate finally completed that map so you can play your missions...

All this, while still need to play challenge and other modes at same time, it's just not possible to enjoy that kind of game. I want GW to be something special, event that occurs once in a while, after few months break, we wouldn't mind even if battles are every day then for few weeks nonstop. Because you feel eager, want to test yourself, see where you are against other guilds.
Right now.... we just had enough of it. This season was a total mistake. I don't even remember against who i played yesterday

3vilrine · September 2020

brucewayne007 said:

its the fact people have 150 tools available to them within the match. It should be capped to 1 Medkit and 2 grenades.
I don’t like seeing a video where 1 person throws 5 grenades throughout and succeeds.
Tools add a different element of strategy. To push further. They don’t take away the skill, it’s a different element of strategy.

Exactly. The use of tools need a limitation per mission. Not even 2 grenades. 1 Medkit and 1 Nade per mission for Guild Wars only. That would prevent so much unbalance. Everyone has 18 attacks and everyone has 1/1 tools option on a mission. So it wouldn't mean anything you have 10 tools or 50 tools. with 1/1 you would be able to recharge enough tools for every season. And everyone would have the same starting position. Atleast when it comes to tool usage.

Firekid · September 2020

@brucewayne007 @3vilrine just out of interest if you could get grenades from after mission crates, dailies as well as the free ones each week, and the possibility of getting them in the gold chest in the trade shop. Which mean with normal play you could get between 10-15 grenades and medkits a week would you still want them limited to 1 and 1 in guild war battles?

3vilrine · September 2020

So you want a luck based gold chest opening or even worse "dailies" (don't know if you remember players complaining about not getting them in dailies and other do) that players that have more luck get more meds/nades? That makes no sense to balance out the "competitivness" of GW. But just out of interest why you want the abilitly to throw as many nades and meds as you want per gw mission?

Firekid · September 2020

I’m not saying that’s definitely what I’d want but just wondering if everyone having more would make it better for you or worse? I reason I want to have more is because I enjoy trying the 41-44 maps. I’ll always try to do them without tools but if I get into a sticky situation I like to know they are there to maybe help me out. Let’s face it the maps are designed so that some are almost impossible without them.

If they wanted to automatically equip you with 1 grenade and 1 medikit every mission (Not out of your personal stash) I’d be happy with that too. Would mean I could also use my personal stash in the challenge.

In fact that’s probably my favourite idea. Keeps GW even for everyone and those who want to spend gold to climb the leaderboard by using tools can.

WellyLuga · September 2020

A 1 grenade/medkit limit is a nice idea, like you say it would create a level playing field. A non-paying player might need to use their tools a little more sporadically but not every mission needs a tool.

After that some of the maps need toning down. Certain map layouts should never be search for clues. Open the gate maps should be a standalone mission type. I don't think there should ever be more than 1 tank/spike on a map. Remove KAW maps completely. Maps should have autospawns OR a threat counter. Loading tight spaced maps with special walkers, a threat counter and autospawns is just plain lazy. It would be nice to have one game mode that doesn't reek of pay to win. That was the beauty of GW 2.0 when it was first introduced but it has lost it's way. Just a few of my thoughts anyway.

NG needs to find a better, less shady way to make a quick buck.

NerfZone187 · September 2020

Dozer here: Quit playing the all grind /no fun, milking man's land. Download an actual strategy game with real players (not bots) and play with me and Kaz (the former community manager from this crappy game)
They're introducing a club wars feature soon vs human players (not vs stupid bots) and it's cheap to progress. Like $4.99 per month for the pass. 100 million DAU and growing.

Oh and max accts are max accounts. There's no competitive advantage once you're at max level. Only skill will carry you to the top 0.1% which is where you'll find me killing you.
And maybe they'll even give @Fluxxx a job as soon as this game crashes and burns 🤷😆

NerfZone187 · September 2020

Troublemaker said:

This game mode is terrible and can't be fixed.

Yet you're still here playing week after week you lifer 😆🤦

NerfZone187 · September 2020

WellyLuga said:

Absolutely spot on. Being forced into playing all 6 days was something we refused to do and like you say, since the whole season is decided on VP you can't have an easy battle if you want to fight for top spot. It is baffling at the start of the season when everyone is at zero and you are miss-matched against a much lower guild, where we are pushing for 5H, 6F and 6G outscoring the enemy team by a huge margin. I would ask in the chat, why are we putting ourselves through it? Spending several tools to win a battle that is already won? We need it for the leaderboard. It is like a season of football, basketball, NFL or whatever being decided on goals, points or touchdowns rather than the matches you won. Absolutely ludicrous.

Tools, lets be honest - they're going nowhere. I'm fine with them being in the game, what I'm not fine with is that many of the maps are built in a way that makes them zero-skill, run through a brick wall type missions and some of them can be virtually impossible without them. I typed up the thread below 6 months ago, yes, 6 MONTHS AGO. Fluxxx commented that they would look at it, several updates go by and the maps have not been addressed in any way. Nothing has really. I am looking forward to seeing the patch notes as my decision on whether I continue playing the game hugely depend on it.

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/42726/imbalanced-maps.
Miss grinding with you dude. But I don't miss it here. 😉 Hope you're getting along bud

NerfZone187 · September 2020

@3vilrine who are you JSS'ing?

I'm a survivor, ask anyone who knows me. I survived no man's land, kidney failure, ulcerative Colitis, a GI bleed that almost killed me. So I'm definitely not sweating a petty disagreeing emote on my comment 😂

Troublemaker · September 2020

NerfZone187 said:

Troublemaker said:

This game mode is terrible and can't be fixed.

Yet you're still here playing week after week you lifer 😆🤦

Too much lifetime and money invested in the game to simply quit. Besides I love to have a procrastination tool available.

Guild Wars, unfortunately, can't be fixed they way it is. It has lots of conceptual flaws and it's doing a huge damage to the game.

It took boredom out of the game, but only to a certain extent.

Tools put a bigger void between f2p and p2w. NML was always pretty good at balancing this.

The time restraint will always be a problem. Be it time zones, availability, etc. One simply cannot schedule life around the game. The planner improved this? Yes. Will it forever be a problem? Yes.

Maps are dark and unbalanced. Can it be fixed? Yes. Does it really matter? No.

There isn't room in the game for a competitive mode that conflicts with Challenges. You either choose or you are set to burnout.

Challenges are a endless grind that NG simply fools us into thinking it's not.
Outpost has been completely abandoned and NG does not even bother tweaking values to update it (shame shame shame).
Distance is very good design. Allows us to enjoy. But the rewards have to be better assigned. Can't be permanent as they are.
Guild Wars is hell. Demands you burn out resources, asks for your time, gamble gamble gamble all moves because of corners and random spawns, stresses the guild into coordination, stress player by having him fear a loss, fear shame.

I'm not joking when I say Guild Wars can't be fixed. It can't be fixed.

brucewayne007 · September 2020

Firekid said:

@brucewayne007 @3vilrine just out of interest if you could get grenades from after mission crates, dailies as well as the free ones each week, and the possibility of getting them in the gold chest in the trade shop. Which mean with normal play you could get between 10-15 grenades and medkits a week would you still want them limited to 1 and 1 in guild war battles?

Good question mate.

My answer would still be yes.

Whatever a person can carry, from memory we had 1 or 2 in real life in Afghan. And that was not everyone either. I know it’s a Zombie game and not real but I still like an element of realism.

I’ll hola you on line. Then you will know who it is k

brucewayne007 · September 2020

I really wish NG did make tools more accessible to people that are F2P and people that do spend not waste out F-ken gold haha just to compete.

I actually thought NG initially said they would make them available in daily rewards etc.
but that dried up real fast haha

Burmeliinis · September 2020

They got rid of it as some people got several grenades while others got none. They changed it so everyone gets 2 of each every week from the shop.

brucewayne007 · September 2020

Burmeliinis said:

They got rid of it as some people got several grenades while others got none. They changed it so everyone gets 2 of each every week from the shop.

Yea k. I didn’t realise.

I do like that they give everyone within the game 2 each week.

But I love the idea of having them in Gold Crates, daily rewards etc.
Other avenues then 300 gold 👎🏼

xbamfx · September 2020

I’m going to go out on a limb here and reply with 1 word:

Beta 😆🤣😏

mir · September 2020

It's all terrible. But let's not stop NG from making money. Already for outright mistakes in the game do not give compensation. The whole game is Beta!? It's time to hear and open NG's eyes.

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