Guild Wars - Leagues

KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
edited November 2020 in Guild Wars Discussion
Season 6 of Guild wars is currently ongoing, and by the number of threads posted every day about this mode you can see that people are still unhappy, not satisfied with how everything is working, want changes, propose all kind of solutions. Some find it easy, some find it too hard, most don't find rewards worth all the trouble, while leaderboards are meaningless.
This is happening because there are hundreds of "hardcore" guilds and thousands of "casual" guilds. And all of them are put into same basket, and same rules, rewards, apply to all of them. That just can never work, never satisfy all users. NG choose easiest solution when designing this mode, when comes to picking difficulties, maps, format...everything. With motto "this will work for most of the users, lets go with it" 
I know, i know... you don't have many people working on game and it's hard. But don't underestimate power of community of people playing your game. WE CAN HELP. We can make this work. Let us have a real war, not another soon to become "outpost" - great idea, with poor realization, abandoned .

So, what we have here ?
Small guilds who try to play, and then in 1st week of competition get destroyed  by much larger guilds because points are reset to 0 and you can get anyone. Motivation ruined from start to them.
Medium guilds in development, who organize themselves well, start season good, win everything, then next week they end up in rank so high where is just impossible to them to beat any enemy, lose all, motivation ruined, effort from 1st week - pointless.
And on the bare end we have top guilds who, really have lot of complaints, and i will just mention most important and that is meaningless leaderboard, all effort put in this is without proper reward. Format allowing going into battle with 3-10 players is just making fight on top look like "battle of chickens" where guilds are doing nothing but trying to avoid eachother 

How to make everyone happy ?
My answer to this would be - create LEAGUES. Each league would have own rules, rewards, meant for specific kind of guilds. Each guild can pick what they want to play and be there with equal rivals, have fair and interesting fights from beginning. 
Don't tell me it's not possible to code, or create. It's a must, in my opinion,for future of the game to move from current format and create something serious for a change. 
My idea of how this can work will be presented in post under this one :

[Deleted User]RickMSAWellyLugaNova_TWDNanajjalola_renntaquilaJens_KF

Comments

  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,016
    Very cool idea! I think you've got to be careful with balance though, in particular with the master league. I think 20 guilds is a bit low - if you can only face each other 1-2 times per season will there even be enough for matchmaking? :lol:. Playing every battle of the week against a top 20 team is a sure way to lead to burnt out since there will be no respite, maybe top 50 or 100?

    I think you've got to be careful with letting guilds pick their league too, it should probably be decided on merit right? Maybe decided on VP from the last season and then if a guild from a lower league outscores you then you are relegated next season and they're promoted to take your place.
  • capibaracapibara Member Posts: 6,690
    I'm confused.. how can you deal with those top players who just are bored of Challenge and sometimes they move into a casual guild for few weeks... and then a “really casual guild” met one of those “casual guild” and they are slaughtered by a team of 3 or 4 monster players?
    "Always be yourself unless you can be a capybara. Then always be a capybara".
    --> Do you need a guild? ...send me a Private Message. My Recruiting den and my "Art Objects" in the Next Games Collection.
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    Table is just example, doesn't have to be exactly like posted  ;)  @WellyLuga

    Idea for Master League, is though, if you see 8vs8, 5 matches per week, 4 wars, that's 20 matches per season. You only need 21 teams and everyone will face eachother once

    Honestly i would be happy to see even 2 leagues for a start. Little more serious and organized guilds in one group and those who don't want to have serious battle plans or just have no full guild of active members - to other group with free-form GW schedule like now
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    Well @capibara how are we dealing with that problem now? That's actually problem of current system as well.

    I believe if rewards are good enough, and if there are trophies to fight for, that can be long awaited extra motivation for those top players to stay.
    If you go down, because you have no time, well, you miss those rewards and make possible "boost" in performance of some weaker guild that's definitely true. Feel free to suggest solution if you have
  • AzagalAzagal Member Posts: 7
    edited November 2020
    I think the system works very well now.
    It's still a mobile game where the majority of players (99%) play without hard try.
    The first week of war is precisely used to determine the level of the clans. Then balance it all out.
    Depending on the month there are strong or weaker people who join a clan. The entire guild level can go down or up as a result (a former master clan will play master when they have lost their 3 big players?)
    We are not on league of legend, CS or fortnite. There are not enough players to be able to do a 100% balanced match and divide everyone.
    The game just celebrated its 5th anniversary, which is huge for a mobile application. This system would bring her again and again to reward the strongest and those who spend more money in games.
    The current system is the most balanced even if it means "sacrificing the first week of the season"
    TCBRITOJens_KF
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,143
    My first though...good luck getting players to form the exact teams needed to meet the standards.  Without leaders having the ability to boot players from battles getting exactly the right number of team sizes will be hard.
    image
    15 Guilds cover all skill levels & game motivations
    Entry level Boot Camp & Badge System 101 Chat
    Our top 3 Global Guilds form a team of 60 Top 20 in Elite Mid 20 in Recon and Bottom 20 in Hellcats
    Private Message Billbam or Red111 to reserve your spot!

    KarajocaTCBRITO
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    @Azagal because of those who spend more money , this game exist, survived those 5 years you mentioned. And there is almost zero competitiveness in all game modes. Honestly when i think of it i ask myself how is possible that we still play it, and what exactly i am doing here, why am i grinding, why am i farming, why am i crafting badges and upgrading my survivors to perfection when there is no real achievement i can win ?

    Play challenge for a week, results disappear, nothing happened, repeat. Guild Wars at least should be something more special.

    99% play without hard try you say ? Why would they care or bother, if there are some solid ranking system made that divide that 1% from them ? Why would be a problem to reward those players who play like "professionals" ? Why not being able to win trophies ?

    It's a small game, and this is very doable. We don't know eachother @Azagal but if you are end-gamer here, and satisfied with how things are going, congrats. I know that many "top" players aren't. They need some motivation to keep going, and current format is a joke to me. 
    kinkoFirekidWellyLugaJens_KF
  • NanajjaNanajja Member Posts: 82
    Think you hit the nail on the head with how matchmaking plays out as you advance week to week. Leagues sound interesting. Agree improvement needed! Only thing that keeps us going is at least we accumulate rp to spend losing in 3rd and 4th wk. we actually are talking wk 4 battle not  trying for win just experimenting with harder level because we rarely have a shot at win , with multilevel team playing against teams 500+ when we have never broken 500 lol! Not sure I like using challenge score though are team varies greatly in challenge. I am only one getting over 2000 and wouldn’t want to effect my team being ranked to high in battle. Also think they should increase pts for pvp as difficulty & injury has increased. Our lower level players aren’t wanting to clear now so we can work on harder missions and also taking longer because some wait to heal rather than spend gold. This is causing serious chaos trying to get sectors cleared and move in paths especially with varying time zones. Gets real frustrating waiting & some can’t get all attacks in because of timing!
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    Only thing that concerns me with this is breaking up solid guilds. I am guessing that in 99% of guilds there will be 1 or 2 or more players who just don’t like guild wars who feel compelled to play just for the guild. This current format where doing well means pretty much nothing it’s pretty decisive in guilds, leads to a lot of arguments and bad feelings. Having your leader pick a harder league and then the added stress of playing to your best could be enough to really break guilds apart. 
    Obviously I enjoy guild wars and think it’s a great idea but needs to be carefully thought out and safe guards put in place to make those who hate guild wars enjoy it and want to play it. 
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 382
    Add a league where tools cannot be used and you have my vote @Karajoca
    WellyLuga
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,143
    ignas said:
    Add a league where tools cannot be used and you have my vote @Karajoca
    and how do you enforce and monitor it? 

    image
    15 Guilds cover all skill levels & game motivations
    Entry level Boot Camp & Badge System 101 Chat
    Our top 3 Global Guilds form a team of 60 Top 20 in Elite Mid 20 in Recon and Bottom 20 in Hellcats
    Private Message Billbam or Red111 to reserve your spot!

    Paste
  • Jens_KFJens_KF Member Posts: 53
    I love this idea! I basically agree with everything Karajoca says.

    GW is the only competitive mode in NML left. As seen in the challenge, there is no competition anymore. Everybody just grinds until he is too bored to go on. OP and distance are completely outdated, as well the rewards as the playing style.

    the only downside in GW is the matchmaking. With leagues and fixed team sizes we could be sure to face top guilds every day and have fun in competition.
    The rewards are ok. But I would fight much more for a guild trophy, than for my 3rd Daryl’s Knife or my 300th golden badge.

    I really hope that NG will support this.
    TCBRITOKarajocaNova_TWD
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,016
    GW is competitive? You mean tool wars? :trollface:
    TCBRITOKarajoca
  • ignasignas Member Posts: 382
    Billbam said:
    ignas said:
    Add a league where tools cannot be used and you have my vote @Karajoca
    and how do you enforce and monitor it? 

    Whole idea need help from NG and I game development so it can be restricted by code.

    Top 10-20 guilds scores depend in 10% by toons, 20% skill, rest is amount of tools being used. So yes, I would like to see league where they are forbidden.
    kinkoKarajocaTCBRITOWellyLuga
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 231
    I see both practical as more principled objections to the proposed formula.

    Principled:

    - another case of the rich getting richer (or as you call them "the elite") as the top teams form their own little club, and, in the process lay claim to the best rewards. 

    practical:

    - all battles are 8 vs 8: the reason why the range of participants was increased was because many guilds found it to be too restricting before.
    And what are you going to do when a player forgets to sign up, suddenly leaves the guild, or any other reason you can't form an 8 player team? You default the match? That will cause some serious "discussions".
    - You put in 20 teams there will be teams losing 90% of their matches (the larger your group the more chance all teams will be able to win a reasonable amount of matches though). These teams may put up 8.5-8.6k on a bad day but they will still lose the large majority of their matches. Can't imagine that will be fun for them, leading to people leaving those guilds, joining smaller ones or the top 5 guilds (so the rich get richer again).

    As it is in the current system you can overperform a given week but you will meet tougher opponents the next week because of it. Same thing you can underperform but then have a better chance of meeting more beatable opponents the next week, so it all evens out over the course of a season unless you have very good/bad luck.

  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 231
    If you want to make things more competitive i think there is a quick solution -that may not be perfect, sure something i haven't thought of -  that doesn't involve too many major changes and at the same time it could solve the issue, if you want to call it that, that currently exists where you can accumulate more VP by playing with smaller teams.

    Introduce a "HANDICAP".

    Each win you get in GW as a team gives you a handicap for the next battle.

    The amount to be decided but you get deducted a little VP per win.
    This doesn't impact personal VP or RP earned of course.

    Say you win you first match you will start the second at - 50 (purely an example). You win 5 battles you have a 250 VP handicap. You lose the next one the handicap drops to 200 and so on.

    This will not only give guilds a chance to beat a higher ranked / stronger guild it can also at least mitigate the advantage of playing smaller teams.
    You play six battles per week you will get more wins and carry a higher handicap into the next war.

    You want more competitiveness this could be a quick fix.


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