Issues with GW and international guilds

This may have already been said before but I would like to bring up the issues of GW battles and international guilds. Time zones play a huge factor in battles. Especially if you have international members. The problem mostly lies with opening sectors. Most guilds have their members categorized by weakest to strongest. Weaker players do the starting maps to open areas for the stronger players. This means the weaker players have to start the battle earliest to give time for the stronger players to complete the later maps. This usually leaves the stronger players waiting with nothing to do and wasting time. (not to mention healing time) With international guilds there are complications with opening maps because the battle might start while the weaker players are asleep. Then once the weaker players are awake and open the easier maps the stronger players are now asleep.
There are two options to fix this.
1. Make battles last 2 days instead of 1. This will give ample time for all participating players to complete their designated maps.
2. Remove the tier system and make all maps available from the start. This will allow anyone of any difficulty level to play when they have time.
Points from earlier sectors do not stack onto maps from later sectors so it makes no difference which you complete first. A sector completed is a sector completed. No matter when it was completed.
ShayHaDedmonkinko
«1

Comments

  • ShayHaShayHa Member Posts: 319
    Agree. Its really hard wait to later area to be open
  • TireaTirea Member Posts: 50
    Times in my example below might be +/-1h off due to daylight saving times in different local areas.
    Battles start at 08:30am (UTC-0).
    Germany (UTC+1) this is: 09:30am.
    Los Angeles (UTC-8) this is: 00:30am.
    German Player assigned for 41+.
    US East Player assigned for 38-40.
    The US East player will probably soonest start at 08:30am in his local time, which means that 8h of the battle have already passed.
    For the German Player it will be 05:30pm by that time.
    Considering that he needs to do 18 hard maps and want to sleep coming night and needs healing time I can see stuff getting very tight especially if we consider that this is "just" an app game (we all love). While I am well aware that you can make it work, I think that it might not really be worth the effort for some players.

    I would recommend to make battles last 2 days and arrange Wars and Season accordingly. As far as I get my head around there would no other changes be required other than changing the timing of battles/wars/seasons.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    @Tirea i was agreeing with you 100% until you said "healing time" 

    Heal with gold, or do easier missions so you don't get fucked up. Period. 

    Few things in this game 🤬 irritate me more then selfish people who make others wait for their troops to heal in Guild Wars





    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
    NerfZone187rogueDSWellyLugaADPaqPasteDonCoqui
  • leuchte123leuchte123 Member Posts: 20
    Sorry, what does that have to do with selfishness, if you are not so stupid as throwing gold around?
    PasteATLAS-ZzaradinDonCoqui
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    Sorry, what does that have to do with selfishness, if you are not so stupid as throwing gold around?

    Selfish because you are stealing that time from other players while they wait on you?

    Selfish because you are, in effect, saying that your pretend-video-game-gold, is more valuable than your Guild Mates free time.

    And I hate it when people waste MY time



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
    DonCoqui
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 743
    It's up to each guild to set their expectancy for gold, tool and red gas usage in GW. I however absolutely agree with Atlas you should offer to use gold to heal to people when you know they are waiting and unable to play until you unlock for them. It's the #1 thing you should spend gold on imo. Your guild mates time is worth that that tiny investment. If you don't think so consider how much gold someone would get if they worked for the time you make them wait.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    ATLAS-Z
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 743
    I don't disagree with Tirea though. If there's no one waiting it's better that people get their sectors unlocked early to give them time to heal without gold.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    leuchte123
  • TireaTirea Member Posts: 50
    I feel a bit missunderstood and the discussion seems to loose focus.

    What I meant with the additional healing issue is that you can come into a position where you need to do multiple hard maps, while time is running out, so you would potentially need to spend a lot of gold for healing. Of course it is totally up to the guild or the player in spending gold here to heal as an option. And yes of course your guild mates time is worth it. But in general this thread should now not focus on "spend gold or not" but instead the timezone issue.

    I still think that removing the dependance of sectors from each other (so everybody could start any sector she/he wants) or extending battles to 48h (or 46h) would help with the pressure that (at last in our guild some) players feel. Also, maybe I am thinking here not deep enough, I do not see much complications with both of these potential solutions.




    PasteATLAS-ZADPaqzaradin
  • rogueDSrogueDS Member Posts: 607
    No one forces anybody to use gold like @ATLAS-Z said do some easier maps or human enemies. That is just how it works. I could do over 600 easy in gw but I do some human enemies and sometimes level 35 to 38 maps at end of war. Some of our guild members can’t go over 36. Some people ask for way to much. I do like the 2 day battle in my opinion or maybe even 36 hour battles and give us 20 attacks.  @Fluxxx @zbot
    kinkoDonCoqui
  • Marcus6253Marcus6253 Member Posts: 219
    I don’t understand why we have to unlock the next section by completing the current one.  What does it do other than frustrate the players.  I am one of the few players in our guild that can win high level walker missions at 36/37 level.  I know beginner level for some of you.  But we have others that can only play humans at that level.  So I do walkers and then must wait for them to do humans so I can do next section walker missions.  Our guild members span 18 time zones.  Coordinating missions is difficult to no discernible reason.  Agree with original poster, eliminate having to unlock missions.
  • rogueDSrogueDS Member Posts: 607
    If we unlock that a top guild will just do 6h and multi hit every attack or say 5f I think you need to unlock that is why ng has sections to pass sectors. 
  • zeeblackzeeblack Member Posts: 1,170
    @Suckit I 100% agree with the idea of removing the Tier System. All the maps should be available from the start. This would also take care of the time zone problem for international guilds. 

    I am of the opinion of removing human enemies (survivors of other guilds) from the GW as we are just playing bots and not real players. I have not yet lost a single map involving human enemies but its a major drain on my gold. Yesterday, played a 5 or 6 human enemies and my 9 survivors/ heroes were in hospital for minimum 1 hour. I am more happy with a Spikey or Metal Head than with a human who drains all my health in a single shot.   

    I am the one and only Zee Black, climbed all the way to Level 75, part of SG Woot, the 3 million star guild

  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,814
    edited November 2020
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Sorry, what does that have to do with selfishness, if you are not so stupid as throwing gold around?

    Selfish because you are stealing that time from other players while they wait on you?

    Selfish because you are, in effect, saying that your pretend-video-game-gold, is more valuable than your Guild Mates free time.

    And I hate it when people waste MY time
    Nothing but respect for you on these forums and for your many, many ideas which have contributed to the improvement towards the game but I cannot disagree with you more here. The battle is 22 hours long, it's a long time and for many players you can play the missions here and there whilst healing times permit. Myself, I can do the toughest missions for my guild but they cost many tools and almost always come with injury time. Those tools cost gold and since I can't afford to constantly spend RL money for gold I can't always buy them unless I avoid using gold for heals. Are you saying instead of doing RSL 44-47 maps with a high success rate I should instead be wasting my attacks on maps way below my capabilities that don't come with injury time?
    ADPaqCaptainslayerDonCoqui
  • CronusCronus Member Posts: 1,272
    rogueDS said:
    If we unlock that a top guild will just do 6h and multi hit every attack or say 5f I think you need to unlock that is why ng has sections to pass sectors. 
    Very easy fix for this. Don't allow multiple players in on an already occupied map.
    ADPaqFirekid
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    WellyLuga said:
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Sorry, what does that have to do with selfishness, if you are not so stupid as throwing gold around?

    Selfish because you are stealing that time from other players while they wait on you?

    Selfish because you are, in effect, saying that your pretend-video-game-gold, is more valuable than your Guild Mates free time.

    And I hate it when people waste MY time
    Nothing but respect for you on these forums and for your many, many ideas which have contributed to the improvement towards the game but I cannot disagree with you more here. The battle is 22 hours long, it's a long time and for many players you can play the missions here and there whilst healing times permit. Myself, I can do the toughest missions for my guild but they cost many tools and almost always come with injury time. Those tools cost gold and since I can't afford to constantly spend RL money for gold I can't always buy them unless I avoid using gold for heals. Are you saying instead of doing RSL 44-47 maps with a high success rate I should instead be wasting my attacks on maps way below my capabilities that don't come with injury time?


    All I'm saying is be considerate of your teammates

    There have been plenty of times, especially on my Jr account (not usually a problem with my elite squad) when I've had to stay up well past my bedtime to even START my attacks... Just to find out some guy was waiting on his troops to heal?

    Come on man!

    That's just rude

    So yes , in this case, the guy (s) shouldn't be doing missions that hard if he can't do it without being murdered.

    If you can't pay the doctor, don't go mountain climbing.

    Go hill climbing.

     B) 



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
    PasteBttlOpenerCaptainslayerDonCoqui
  • TireaTirea Member Posts: 50
    Cronus said:
    rogueDS said:
    If we unlock that a top guild will just do 6h and multi hit every attack or say 5f I think you need to unlock that is why ng has sections to pass sectors. 
    Very easy fix for this. Don't allow multiple players in on an already occupied map.
    Exactly my thoughts.


    In my opinion it is wrong to expect any player to spend gold on healing. If you are in a guild with players you know good and there is a mindset of using x amount of gold in guild war, then yes, of course. But it is some form of agreement.

    The conflict between "need to stay up even past my bedtime" vs "but the team needs me" issue also (in my opinion) should not happen at all, specially not in an app game and definitivly not only for "some" players that need to play later in battle.

    Finally I think that of course every player should be given the option to play the best he can, improve and test his limits without gold being a requirement to do so. There seems to be a reason why the doctor does not want payment, even if you go mountain climbing.


    I cant help but think that slight changes to the guild wars system could improve or even resolve these issues without drawbacks in other areas or for other players.
    CaptainslayerDonCoqui
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,814
    ATLAS-Z said:
    WellyLuga said:
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Sorry, what does that have to do with selfishness, if you are not so stupid as throwing gold around?

    Selfish because you are stealing that time from other players while they wait on you?

    Selfish because you are, in effect, saying that your pretend-video-game-gold, is more valuable than your Guild Mates free time.

    And I hate it when people waste MY time
    Nothing but respect for you on these forums and for your many, many ideas which have contributed to the improvement towards the game but I cannot disagree with you more here. The battle is 22 hours long, it's a long time and for many players you can play the missions here and there whilst healing times permit. Myself, I can do the toughest missions for my guild but they cost many tools and almost always come with injury time. Those tools cost gold and since I can't afford to constantly spend RL money for gold I can't always buy them unless I avoid using gold for heals. Are you saying instead of doing RSL 44-47 maps with a high success rate I should instead be wasting my attacks on maps way below my capabilities that don't come with injury time?


    All I'm saying is be considerate of your teammates

    There have been plenty of times, especially on my Jr account (not usually a problem with my elite squad) when I've had to stay up well past my bedtime to even START my attacks... Just to find out some guy was waiting on his troops to heal?

    Come on man!

    That's just rude

    So yes , in this case, the guy (s) shouldn't be doing missions that hard if he can't do it without being murdered.

    If you can't pay the doctor, don't go mountain climbing.

    Go hill climbing.

     B) 
    For opening sectors like 4G, that's fair enough I wouldn't expect to wait hours for that to be completed but for anything past that I just think it's a bit of a dick move to expect people to use gold for heals in a battle that lasts nearly a day. It's rude to force people into spending their resources to keep you happy, some of these missions are set up in a way that even the top players get murdered. I wouldn't ever want to be in a guild that imposed that :lol:
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    @WellyLuga so your teammates would be okay with waiting until past midnight to do their sectors because they haven't been opened yet due to players waiting for healing?

    I find that hard to believe man



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
    Pardus
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,814
    edited November 2020
    ATLAS-Z said:
    @WellyLuga so your teammates would be okay with waiting until past midnight to do their sectors because they haven't been opened yet due to players waiting for healing?

    I find that hard to believe man
    I never said anything about midnight, my heavy injuries are 2 hours, not 10. The first few sectors are ideally done quickly to open 5G and 5H but after that we don't pressure anyone into using gold. Maybe another player will pick up an extra mission whilst another player is on healing break. It's a game, there should never be that pressure on one player from another to spend resources that technically cost RL money, I don't care how seriously you take it.
    DonCoqui
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    edited November 2020
    @WellyLuga I'm going to take some time the craft my response because there's some things I want to address and some things that I think you have misunderstood about me

    (#1 I don't force anyone to spend $$) 
    But first I need to know one thing

    Do you play a junior account? Or have you recently had the opportunity to play in a guild that wasn't wild walking with 19 other Aces as strong as you or near enough?



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,814
    edited November 2020
    ATLAS-Z said:
    @WellyLuga I'm going to take some time the craft my response because there's some things I want to address and some things that I think you have misunderstood about me

    (#1 I don't force anyone to spend $$) 
    But first I need to know one thing

    Do you play a junior account? Or have you recently had the opportunity to play in a guild that wasn't wild walking with 19 other Aces as strong as you or near enough?
    I got the impression that there was an element of misunderstanding. God no, I did start an alt account and got up to level 20 survivors before losing interest. Playing one account to max is time consuming enough. We are blessed with strong players in WW but only a handful play the toughest missions, I get that the gap between the top and bottom players is much shorter here than in many others but I have played in guilds where the top player is dabbling in the F-H route and the bottom player is in B.

    All that said, no matter your skill level or ranking in the game, the idea of being called selfish for not wanting to burn gold on heals just didn't sit well with me. Then suggesting dropping down and playing lower levels didn't either, the best way to get better at the tough maps is by playing them. Eventually heavy injuries turn into injuries, injuries turn into bruises, so on. None of that happens if you have a guild leader forcing said players to drop down into their comfort zone though because they're taking too long. My 2 cents.
    DonCoqui
  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 39
    I personally really like the idea of each war being 2 days instead of 1. We could switch to that model and stop having weeks off maybe.

    I'm not sure NG would like that though, as I assume they like players having more reasons to spend gold.

    Could also just permanently change hospital healing time ratios for GWs injuries. Again, maybe not desirable to NG as it reduces need to spend gold.
    kinko
  • TireaTirea Member Posts: 50
    edited November 2020
    Well we made the point and posted the issue and ideas.

    Unfortunately it seems to be less of an issue to others I assume. So I simply wait for 2021 to come and see the next GW iteration.

    Edit: Actually Suckit did post the issue :)
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 4,770
    edited November 2020
    @WellyLuga

    For argument's sake let's say you're playing at the top of your ability to clear a sector that has 8 walkr missions


    Now let's say that you have one primary team that you like to use in Guild Wars, your go-to team.


    So if anyone on this team got critically wounded they would have to be healed before you can move on to the next mission.


    Assuming you're playing at the top of your ability that means likely after each Mission you will have at least one of your survivors critically injured, requiring 2 hours of heal time.


    So that's:

    8 x2 = 16 hours plus PVP to clear one sector, 


    That's 12 attacks used up out of 180 for a 10 Man team. 


    And now let's assume that everybody in the guild is playing at the top of their ability, all with varying degrees of skill, because most guilds aren't like wild walking with 20 Aces.


    So again assuming a 10 person team that's 180 attacks - PVP around 60 or so and that's 120 missions. So assume for argument's sake that all of the 120 missions and with a critical injury that requires two hours of heal time.


    That's 240 hours plus PVP and let's face it nowadays a lot of times players get critically injured from PvP so let's just tack on another 30 hours, so 270 hours total. 


    Now some of these missions can be going on simultaneously obviously since there's multiple paths and not everyone has to wait for everyone else so let's just divide that by 3 and it's roughly 90 hours to complete all assigned sectors and use up all 180 attacks, while including Hospital wait times. 


    So I don't know about you but I don't have 90 hours to play, on a work day I'm lucky if I have 3 hours to play. 


    So I'm really trying to wrap my head around how you can expect people to not use gold to heal when they're playing at the top of their abilities and acquiring critical wounds?


    You have to look outside your bubble because I know in your guild people don't get critical injuries until the last few sectors in the far right corner. But this is not the case for a lot of guilds I would wager to say most guilds.



    _____________________________

    _____________________________

    Now about me


    I let my players decide the difficulties they want to play, and they all know that we're working against the clock being an international Guild.


    Some of them don't want to use up gold or tools and so I give them missions to do that they won't get murdered in and can pass within the range of their abilities.


    Others are okay spending gold and really want to push themselves and so I give them missions to do that fit this difficulty for them.


    And to be clear I hold myself to the same standard and in fact I'm usually the one at the end of the battle with just a couple hours trying to use up all my attacks before the clock expires. Obviously no time for the hospital.


    Gold heal. 


    In a top-tier guild like yours , with everyone playing at the highest level probably there's only a few missions that are going to critically wound you so maybe it makes sense for you to be able to use Hospital time. But for the rest of us scrapping by beneath you, we do not have that luxury of time. 


    It's not fair for me to use Hospital time simply because I'm doing 5H when somebody in my guild has to work just as hard as I did to complete 4E. Difficulty is relative.


    So help me understand. I think my methods are reasonable and my players seem to agree.


    (edited for typos/grammar) 



    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX SATISFIES. Check us out HERE
    EMAIL US --> [email protected]"
    kinkoDedmon
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 2,814
    edited November 2020
    @ATLAS-Z That's a fair explanation of your situation and it obviously works for you and your guild. The thing is, you didn't really say any of that at the start. You just came out all guns blazing claiming anyone who plays without gold is selfish and if you relied on the hospital you should drop down and play lower level missions.

    I agree, if you're picking up heavy injuries to your main team every map and you're not playing a 6x sector then you're probably biting off more than you can chew and should either drop down or continue but use gold. But that's a very extreme case. 

    Not every map carries this risk. You can prioritise your maps and play maps that are going to be a little easier first. Play the lower levels or KAW/get to exit first, then play the search for clues with tanks and spike after a few missions. If Rick or Sasha pick up a heavy injury I'll play maps that are more favourable for the other. If Eugene does then I'll play maps that I can get through with Morgan/RGG. If they're all injured then ill take a little healing break, but if it's going to affect other players I'll bite the bullet and pay the bill but I wouldn't want to feel forced.

    As long as you're averaging 1 or 2 missions per hour you're not going to run out of time. If you've allocated your maps well as a guild then it isn't going to be a issue. If you let people just go rogue and do missions they're not strong enough for and they refuse to use gold, playing one map every 2 hours, that's where I can see your problem but I've not heard of that happening in any guilds I speak to.
    Arqueue
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 743
    In a 22h battle everyone using either 2h between attacks or gold to heal after every battle are extreme cases. There are pragmatic in-betweens, especially when many people have time and prefer to not use gold unless necessary.

    Yesterday I did 4F in my morning time and luckily an American team mate was up late and could finish the humans. I finished the zombie missions quickly so he didn't have to wait long. I think I needed 1-3 gold only. Then I had about 4 or so hours before everyone else woke up and another 6 or so hours before I found myself having to use gold again to keep another person from waiting. Before I went to bed I asked another team mate to use gold to heal so I could finish my last attacks, and he did of course.

    As you probably figured this doesn't quite fit Atlas week day case of only having a 3 hour window to play, but I think playing within a 3h window would be impossible with our min-maxing strategy and people being in different time zones.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
  • PastePaste Member Posts: 743
    WellyLuga said:
    Then suggesting dropping down and playing lower levels didn't [sit well with me] either, the best way to get better at the tough maps is by playing them. Eventually heavy injuries turn into injuries, injuries turn into bruises, so on. None of that happens if you have a guild leader forcing said players to drop down into their comfort zone though because they're taking too long. My 2 cents.
    I disagree. People who have a strong interest in the game meta, game mechanics, progression etc will progress either way and will take on risk when they're ready to step up. People who don't care about the meta and game mechanics won't progress much either way. Hurting yourself doesn't make you better. It helps the team win points if you play closer to your limits, but it hurts them more if you're not ready to use gold. It makes the battle frustrating for everyone. I remember several times where one person kept everyone else waiting. That's obviously super dumb and a waste of valuable time. So I agree with Atlas on this.
    If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
    ATLAS-Z
  • ArqueueArqueue Member Posts: 164
    edited November 2020
    Interesting topic. I new to forum and wish to ask questions regarding to the topic.

    top guilds normally go for war in groups of more than 5, yes? If so, wouldn't there be more than1 weak player compared to whole team? and if that weak player got injured and want to wait for 2h, can't the next weak player continue? if that player not around, the next one take over? where is the waiting time?

    to the first person who post, if 2 days for each battle, will this affect the schedule or other things like waiting for next battle? i think i will be bored wait for next battle. there may be affects if change.

    calling others selfish for not spending gold on heal is not right. some of us have not much gold and not much real cash. may i ask you back, why are you as fellow guild member so selfish not to help the weaker player to continue open the maps? you know what is a meaning of guild? a guild is as strong as the weakest link. ranking will improv if all members help each other. not helping the weak player show you no guild player.

    also, who are you to tell others where to spend their gold. can we say player who hoard alot of gold as selfish becos they not using some gold to buy crates to help others? we cant for same reason.

    so players like atlas and paste, you should kick the low rank player out of guild since they waste your time. i assure you cant because you need them in future battles and wars. imagine a guild full of no weak players, then who is going to open the easy maps? 

     
    PasteTimboski
Sign In or Register to comment.