How to fix GW scoring

With all the new tools and weapons GW has become easier, and there are already a lot of guilds that can manage to close 6H in every battle. This has led to two issues; that draws have become more frequent and also that the leaderboard is heavily influenced by how many KAW missions there are in 6H that you can stack. Also a lot of players are now achieving the elusive 812 pts score, so we don't have a clear top 1 player every season.

So instead of taking the route of restricting tool usage etc, how about introducing a VP cost for using tools.

For each tool used in a GW mission, decrease the amount of VP for that mission by 1-2 points (similar to the VP cost of retrying a mission with red gas). This would mean that only by not using tools at all you could achieve the max score, but even using a large amount to win a hard mission would be better than play a easy mission and not use tools at all. So if you use 5 tools on a 45 VP mission, you would get 35-40 points instead. Vote in the poll what you think makes most sense!

A similar system could also be set up for the challenge. Use a tool, and you get 1 star less (with 1 star minimum). So an otherwise 3-starred mission would get 2 stars, a 2 star mission with tools would get 1 star, and a 1 star mission would still get 1 star. Again, this would have a very small effect on total points, but still would mean a mission won with no tools would give a higher score than one with them.
Ingame username: Jubjab

How to fix GW scoring 32 votes

Yes, decrease VP by 1 point per tool used
15%
Gobold69TheKingSarge_Pastekinko 5 votes
Yes, decrease VP by 2 points per tool used
12%
8900rpmBurmeliinisShezza10brucewayne007 4 votes
Yes, decrease VP by even more points per tool used
0%
No, this is a stupid idea
71%
TroublemakerSPCDc74iBolskiRikochetxbamfxADPaqn00bFirekidDrunkenBillbamMario_Romero3vilrineBustaJens_KFs7eyeW8Achilles4200[Deleted User]Spadincoghost_pepper 23 votes
Poki

Comments

  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,178
    I don't think it's stupid, but neither do I want more penalties sooo... 

    Cheers  B)


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  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    No, this is a stupid idea
    The moment NG penalize me for an item used that I paid $ for I will immediately quit the game. DO NOT penalize me for a flawed creation and over saturation of tools in this game. It is known by many players who regularly play 6G and 6H missions daily that tools increase your success rate for completion exponentially. The maps are literally designed to block you and prolong escape almost warranting their use in just about every mission aside from kaw, which someone suggested a couple weeks ago be removed. 

    PokiAchilles4200Steeboons7eyeW8
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,435
    No, this is a stupid idea
    If it’s a tie situation you could create a mission at rsl 50 sudden death where only one player who will be randomly selected to complete it. Many other options out there that wouldn’t penalize players and affect bottom dollar of NG, however requires devs to modify or add content to support this. 
    Pokis7eyeW8
  • BustaBusta Member Posts: 95
    No, this is a stupid idea
    Tools have been brought into the game as a revenue stream #1 and it was a smart business move, also as a way for newer players to advance and get this it also works as a way to even the playing field for GW. So a penalty for using them... no that’s just dumb. We asked for and received a penalty for a retry which is a fair way to do it.  But to sit here and say too many people are getting 812 and have a clear number 1 player... umm seriously that’s what we are concerned with. 🤦🏻‍♂️ the constant crying over ftp ,ctp and ptp along with tools and endless challenges. So let’s just shut the game down period. Ng pack it up, game over it’s not fair for all players. Tools are needed and used to close 6h for the top players period, tools are also needed for your players that are opening up those sectors for the top players. So again No it only will hurt the game more as it will have a ripple effect especially on the early map openers 

    Simple fix they can add a new sector in the next update , at the end of the day all the top guilds  are all pushing lvl 28 toons with multiple pink stars on the toons. So let’s get to lvl 50 GW maps and that will separate the pack. But to penalize people for using tools that they earned or purchased is the best way to get people to quit.  
    PokiVovAchilles4200
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,143
    No, this is a stupid idea
    I say it is time to restructure the map layout and create another level of difficulty, preferably without making it any harder for lower and mid level players.  If the game doesn't challenge people will get bored and stop playing (or paying.)
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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 983
    Yes, decrease VP by 2 points per tool used
    I can somewhat agree with your points on it being wrong to penalize for stuff you paid for, but a lot of tools are also available for free, so it is only partly true.

    But I’m still of the opinion that GW should be a competition where the most skilled players and guilds win, not the ones who purchases the most tools. But maybe I’m too idealistic 😇
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    Tools are definitely needed in GW, and we must understand that mode and maps in it are designed so the tools can be introduced to the game and developers to make money. GW maps were very hard, and all made sense when few months later we get tools. Hardest sectors are impossible to do without them and i can't agree with idea to penalize the usage of them.

    However, i see from where this post is coming from and, like i mentioned multiple times, IT'S NOT OK  one person to be able to throw ridiculous amount of tools during battle. Paying to get advantage must be allowed, but everything should have some limits and boundaries. 
    From my perspective, since we have 18 swords, 18 tools per battle for each player should be allowed. You can use all 18 in one mission, or be careful and use only when really needed. 
    Why ? Because over-use of specific advantage in game is just pay to win - no skill
    Why ? Because when game turns into that, many lose any desire to keep pushing and compete

    Limitation from my example above still give enough advantage to someone who pay because you can't get 36 tools per week ( to use in two battles) for free. But at least we will know that there are  boundaries, so legends and rumors that some players use 50 tools per battle can disappear. 
    kinkoShadowWalkerghost_pepper
  • No, this is a stupid idea
    it's not stupid idea it's bad idea
    i'm think it's impossible at least a server overload for such calculation :)
    they can't fix star hero for GW and this is more difficult 
    ATLAS-Z[Deleted User]ShadowWalker
  • DrunkenDrunken Member Posts: 1,726
    No, this is a stupid idea
    xbamfx said:
    The moment NG penalize me for an item used that I paid $ for I will immediately quit the game. DO NOT penalize me for a flawed creation and over saturation of tools in this game. It is known by many players who regularly play 6G and 6H missions daily that tools increase your success rate for completion exponentially. The maps are literally designed to block you and prolong escape almost warranting their use in just about every mission aside from kaw, which someone suggested a couple weeks ago be removed. 



    Except they already did with red gas!!! 
    Sarge_xbamfx
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,178
    The answer isn't restricting tools, it's making more tools available for players that put in more time.

    Time Vs Money 

    Upgrading buildings can be bought with gold or bought with tomato bundles, or a hard working player can farm his ass off for days and weeks and months and upgrade the same stuff for free or nearly free. 

    You can buy radios and upgrade your troops, oooorrr... you can farm your ass off on radio events, forever and get a decent amount of radios with huge time investment and very little $ investment.

    Components can be bought ... You see where in going with this?

    Players who can /or willing to invest huge amounts of time vs money should have a way to earn/craft tools of some kind that can be as useful, or nearly as useful, as premium tools.

    Don't restrict, just give more ways to grind/craft /earn/farm. 

    The advantage will remain, but it will be lessened a fair amount


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    kinkoghost_pepper
  • Dc74Dc74 Member Posts: 7
    No, this is a stupid idea
    The answer to making guild wars  more fun IMO is to eliminate the ability to pile into a map. Causes all kinds of drama in guilds. It was great in the old GW format where you were all in for 40-50 minute. Seriously sucks now. 
    Busta[Deleted User]ATLAS-ZiBolskiCronusxbamfx
  • BustaBusta Member Posts: 95
    edited January 28
    No, this is a stupid idea
    Dc74 said:
    The answer to making guild wars  more fun IMO is to eliminate the ability to pile into a map. Causes all kinds of drama in guilds. It was great in the old GW format where you were all in for 40-50 minute. Seriously sucks now. 
    What... get rid of piling cause it causes too
    much drama in the guilds?  Then you’re in the wrong guild. Piling is a great strategy to be used to help your guild win a battle. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 
    ATLAS-ZiBolskiCronus
  • SteeboonSteeboon Member Posts: 680
    edited January 28
    Time to add in sector 7 maps
    With nightmare mode spawn 😁
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    @ATLAS-Z you know i agree with crafting tools but then again you need limit  :D 
    limit of how many of them you are able to throw in same turn. 

    It's already possible to throw both grenade & blast in same turn and cause almost 50% damage to tank/spiker & heal/flare... then move & attack. 

    Things just went too far. I know nobody here who are defending tools aren't using them on this way i describe or spend crazy number of them during battle, but it is possible and there is no reason to be. 

    Just a little more rules and limitations to make game more about strategy and tactics then being able to brainless complete missions with cash. That's all i ask for
  • KarajocaKarajoca Member Posts: 366
    edited January 28
    I need to find old threads when grenade was just introduced. 
    We all went crazy and asked NG to remove them because too powerful. 

    Now things are waaaay worse when comes to OP side of using tools and advantage money can make.

    When someone is allowed to score 18k stars in challenge in single week or  when multiple guilds have perfect/no fail and maximum scores in battles every day, changes are needed like it or not.
    To keep things interesting and fun.

    When you complete the game on easy mode you turn on normal or hard. We are here on easy more for months in backwards. Who enjoy that? Not me... 
    ADPaqBurmeliinisShadowWalker
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    No, this is a stupid idea
    I agree you shouldn’t be penalised for something you have earnt or paid for. Although don’t think I’d cry about losing 1vp. However I do like the idea of a limited number of tools, either per battle or per map. 
  • wmswms Member Posts: 89
    There are two or more tiers of players.  The players that have been playing for years and have earned great gear, knowledge, etc.  Then there are the newer players that will never be able to catch up or compete with top tier players.  Use of tools certainly don't give me the advantage over long term players.  I still need badges, equipment, etc and tools are beneficial.    o
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,014
    edited January 28
    It's a touchy subject and it's not something that they will be able to keep all players happy. GW used to be a game mode where skill was rewarded, you couldn't buy your way to the top like you can in the challenge, you had to be good enough to earn it. I get that they have to make money but I would like to see them move back towards that a little.

    At the moment it's just crazy, I think limiting the amount you can use per battle is the more sensible approach. I dont want to see penalties for using something in the game and I wouldnt want to see a limit per mission. Some missions are absolutely horrendous. Something like 18 attacks and 18 tool uses. You could play tool free for the majority but then still be able to spam away when you come across a savage map. It would make you think twice about throwing one that's for sure.

    This game is an absolutely brilliant strategic turn based game and I don't want to see it dominated by something that requires no skill, just your wallet.
    kinkoBurmeliinisShezza10Cronus
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 983
    Yes, decrease VP by 2 points per tool used
    Good feedback and I think @WellyLuga's (and others) idea seems to be the one the community seems to accept the best.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • SJCSJC Member Posts: 48
    edited January 29
    6I 46-48
    6J 47-49
    6K 48-50
    I herd, all follow.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,178
    SJC said:
    6I 46-48
    6J 47-49
    6K 48-50


    I'm thinking 4H new shortcut sector, 

    Then 5I & 6I
    And 5J & 6J


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  • NanajjaNanajja Member Posts: 82
    This change would have a negative impact on beginners,& multi-level guilds already struggling with not having gear to compete with high level tiered defenders. Can’t imagine players would be happy to purchase if penalized for use either. Certainly understand some are in need of more challenging maps. But other game systems can be wait too,when you have mastered the game. Be patient please! Some in chat complaining have used badge jumping & $$ advancing in game to quick perhaps contributed to boredom & wait time for update & harder maps. Hopefully when more of challenge comes with map sets tools will be of value to you again! While understand why you want do not agree good for all!
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 742
    No, this is a stupid idea
    I like the 18 tool limit @Karajoca suggested.

    After that, tool use for #19-36 remove 1 vp per use.

    After  that, tool use for #37-54 remove 2 vp per use. etc

    This allows for and encourages some use. It also addresses "over use" but from a competitive standpoint at the highest level. If a lower level guild has a spendy person who wants to spam tools, closing a high value sector is more rewarding than losing some vp for tool use.

    Think about it....
    There becomes added value for highest level players who do HKs. Because we can all do HKs without using a tool. But that means you get an extra tool to use in your other maps. By spreading the HKs around a bit, everyone has a few maps they know they won't need to use tools in and that means they can use more than 1 tool per walker map. 812 would become a lot harder to get, right?
    Burmeliinis
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,014
    SJC said:
    6I 46-48
    6J 47-49
    6K 48-50
    I'd like to see some in between as well. If you play with 10 players and can't quite clear 6H you end up doing much lower level missions than you would like. Even more if stacking was removed. I think there could be a few more 42-44, 43-45 and even a 44-46 as a work up to 6H and beyond.

    I think when the likes of Red Snow and Mavs meet in battle the above sectors would eventually be closed but if there were more variables in between there would be less likely to be ties between guilds lower down than that.
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 231
    No, this is a stupid idea
    I believe punishing people for using in game resources is not a good way to deal with it.

    I mean look at the red gas. It took forever to find a solution for it and when they did I wasn't unhappy with it. 

    It allowed you to replay missions that you passed comfortably but made some mistakes or were unlucky to suffer some heavy injuries. By replaying you could save the gold cost / healing time that was the result of this.

    Then some people started complaining about it and demanding a penalty for using red gas, something NG actually did.

    Result: the many red gas goes back to just sitting, there largely unused. Unused because i just have to take the healing times / gold cost out of fear that a replay will cost the team.

    Besides that, i'm not a fan of "penalising". I think it's much better to incentivise not using tools than it is to penalise their use.

    Have a little counter in the mission screen that says "+ 3 VP". Every time you use a tool it drops without ever going below 0.

    This way people are rewarded for keeping tool usage limited. 
  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 231
    No, this is a stupid idea
    I'd like to add that creating new RSL levels may increase the gap between guilds temporarily but eventually this gap too will be closed.

    And it may well have the unintended consequence of making GW even more P2W
    JayZ
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,014
    edited February 2
    If there was a cap to the amount of tools you could spam in a battle it would reduce the need for more sectors. 6H wouldn't be a easy as it is now if there weren't a seemingly endless supply of them that you can throw to get you through it. I can see them adding more sectors but changing nothing tool wise as that is what will make them the most money, the demand will increase exponentially. Good luck to anyone competing at the top if that turns out to be the case. I hope you have deep pockets :lol:
  • 3vilrine3vilrine Member Posts: 259
    No, this is a stupid idea
    WellyLuga said:
    If there was a cap to the amount of tools you could spam in a battle it would reduce the need for more sectors. 6H wouldn't be a easy as it is now if there weren't a seemingly endless supply of them that you can throw to get you through it. I can see them adding more sectors but changing nothing tool wise as that is what will make them the most money, the demand will increase exponentially. Good luck to anyone competing at the top if that turns out to be the case. I hope you have deep pockets :lol:

    Don't worry there will be even more tools added in the future, or why do you think there is a scrollbar? :wink:
    WellyLuga
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