Changes during the year 2021

KhanhLeKhanhLe Member Posts: 15
They had a lot updates this year: added new heroes, new game modes, refreshed a few things, ... and come with a lot hot fix. Try to change, adjust a lot of things, that's a good, but there seem to be no considered before. There are many things that make everyone unhappy, innovate but do not has a plan, although not denying the effort of all. And now it's time to fix the things they broke, instead of always add new things.

The Leaderboard Challenge are the most obvious. What do you see when looking at it? Funny!

And the way they do with Power Strike, the way they kick melee their the game. It was everyone mentioned too much on the forum.

Edit Yumiko Leader trait. It's difficult to renew Yumiko Leader trait. But, they can tweak it, purpose reduce the ability to gain charge points with the Sasha squad.
Renew: When Yumiko attacks an enemy on her turn, all ranged Survivors with enough range will has a {0}% chance to gain a Attack the target for {0}% damage.
Or: When Yumiko attacks an enemy on her turn, all ranged Survivors with enough range will attack the target for {0}% damage. Allies' attacks triggered by this trait gain {0}% effective compare to official attacks.
Example: Sasha has a 32% chance to gain a Charge Point after making an attack that results in a Body Shot. Her attacks triggered by Yumiko Leader trait gain {0}% effective of 32% her Leader trait.
Or: When Yumiko attacks an enemy on her turn, all ranged Survivors with enough range will attack the target for {0}% damage. Allies' attacks triggered by this trait has {0}% chance to gain {0}% effective compare to official attacks.

Previously, everyone mentioned Shooter as weak, need buff. Exactly it is buffed with Crippling, helped Shooter a place in the squad. And Yumiko, went beyond what we expected. We have Yumiko, we lost melee, not because of her power, but what they edited for melee.
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Comments

  • veadabaveadaba Member Posts: 19
    edited September 7
    I agree with @KhanhLe .
    Since appearance of SPY team, I haven't spent any money (I’m not saving, no way to use money) and I can make score in any challenge more than 4K without spending tools and gold. But I don’t do anymore, because it's a waste of time. I can't feel fun like playing with melee team.
    I think It's necessary nerf Yumiko for life of this game. The biggest problem is Yumiko gives extra chance to charge for only ranged survivors. It should modify survivors charge when they kill zombies. Upcoming Mercer has 2 times chance to use his LT for ranged.

    And bring back "what they edited for melee", make great weapon for melee and buff some melee's leader trait.
    If I can feel fun with this game and have way to use money, I'll spend money again. I remeber well when winter harpoon gun was avalable in the store, it was so excited. 


    Killdozer187_ATLAS-ZFuriousMoldovanzombieornottobe
  • RohlikzauchemRohlikzauchem Member Posts: 56
    Every online game need to constantly evolve. Going back by nerfing LTs isnt the right way. But introducing new melee LTs that bring fresh air and new mechanics is the way to go. That will keep your wallets busy and let you be step further among us in terms of pink stars. 
    KhanhLe
  • KhanhLeKhanhLe Member Posts: 15
    Every online game need to constantly evolve. Going back by nerfing LTs isnt the right way. But introducing new melee LTs that bring fresh air and new mechanics is the way to go. That will keep your wallets busy and let you be step further among us in terms of pink stars. 

    I agree with you. Instead of buffing this, nerfing that, should buff them all. They have greatly reduced the power of melee, while SPY is too op. Balance is difficult with every game. 
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    Yes, this is what I’ve been saying for ages. But people are taking it the wrong way. I think that we should buff yumiko’s LT (yes that’s right not nerf it). To do this you add in “when a teammate attacks with firing squad they do x damage and y chance to gain a charge point. The Y value should be high. Such at 70% at level 7. You can only gain 1 charge point max per firing squad attack. Yes this slightly nerfs SPY (Mainly the assault part) but hugely boosts all other ranged characters with her in a team. Including Shane, Haggie, shooter rick. It will also remove the requirement for all weapons to not have piercing. 
    Yes most scores will decrease as SPY is so dominate and makes the hardest maps easy but then NG should change the reward structure of the challenge to accommodate this by removing the useless hero’s from the lower star counts (I’m looking at you rosita) and change them for useful hero’s. At round 62 onwards they should remove the epic components because let’s be honest if your hitting those rounds you don’t need epic badges. And replace them with legendary stuff. Then where legendary stuff was put in more phones/tools. 
    Along with this they also need to work on reworking current hero’s and focus on the rubbish melee ones to make them viable as well. 
    The best thing about this game before was how difficult it was, that sense of achievement of beating that really hard map by the skin of your teeth and using different teams to achieve that. 
    Let’s make these changes and make melee and range great again! 
    ShadowWalkerveadaba
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    veadaba said:
    I agree with @KhanhLe .
    Since appearance of SPY team, 

    I enjoy melee myself, I used it in rounds 60's and 70's in last weeks challenge. I also disagree with taking something away from people who invested the time, money, rerolls, badging, etc into building ranged teams. This isn't the answer. All that is going to end up doing is piss off a bunch of people and cause another mass exodus of players to exit the game. And that wouldn't be good for NG's bottom line. 😎
    They haven’t spent on building range teams. Theyve spent on one range team that works in 99% of maps. And those range hero’s are all brilliant in their own right so it’s not like they will have lost out on anything if they buff yumiko and nerf SPY as per my idea above. 
    KhanhLe
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    Each to their own, I personally liked being able to find a new or different way around the map and enjoyed seeing other people’s versions. I remember when people asked for advice on how to do a map and got 3 or 4 different answers. Now I’m not sure why people bother asking as the answer is always SPY. The game will get really stale if this is continued and people will get bored. 
    Yes bringing out new melee characters and buffing existing will help but it’s going to be tough to top spy for making the maps easy. 
    Harder difficulties at the end of the challenge won’t really help. If you can do it with SPY at current 80, chances are you’ll be able to do it at whatever they throw at you. 
    Redesigning maps to make it harder for assaults is a good idea, but labour intensive and having to constantly design maps which make it harder for SPY will limit them on what they can actually make/design/be creative with.
    ”oh wow look at this cool level, oh nah can’t use that too easy with SPY”. 
    Completely agree with the extra star for not using tools. 
    A lot of the above problems have been exacerbated by the finish point in the challenge and the fact there is a real compulsion to not drop a single star. 
    KhanhLeTCBRITOveadaba
  • KhanhLeKhanhLe Member Posts: 15
    Firekid said:
    Each to their own, I personally liked being able to find a new or different way around the map and enjoyed seeing other people’s versions. I remember when people asked for advice on how to do a map and got 3 or 4 different answers. Now I’m not sure why people bother asking as the answer is always SPY. The game will get really stale if this is continued and people will get bored. 
    Yes bringing out new melee characters and buffing existing will help but it’s going to be tough to top spy for making the maps easy. 
    Harder difficulties at the end of the challenge won’t really help. If you can do it with SPY at current 80, chances are you’ll be able to do it at whatever they throw at you. 
    Redesigning maps to make it harder for assaults is a good idea, but labour intensive and having to constantly design maps which make it harder for SPY will limit them on what they can actually make/design/be creative with.
    ”oh wow look at this cool level, oh nah can’t use that too easy with SPY”. 
    Completely agree with the extra star for not using tools. 
    A lot of the above problems have been exacerbated by the finish point in the challenge and the fact there is a real compulsion to not drop a single star. 
    It is difficult and impossible to continuously design new maps to limit SPY's power. They still often reuse old maps, because creating new maps takes a lot of time. The only thing that's possible is tweaking the Yumiko LTs. Instead of investing many heroes, now just invest SPY. I really don't care too much about SPY, but I hate how they buffed SPY by nerfed the melee team
    Firekid
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    edited September 7
    Completely agree @KhanhLe much more resource efficient to balance SPY. Although feel development time could be used to create more new maps and do some remixes of old ones but that’s for a different discussion. 
  • KhanhLeKhanhLe Member Posts: 15
    Firekid said:
    Completely agree @KhanhLe much more resource efficient to balance SPY. Although feel development time could be used to create more new maps and do some remixes of old ones but that’s for a different discussion. 
    A new map is great, but it takes a long time to complete, which will be covering in another discussion. An MMOs game that doesn't refresh means it dies, but they need to consider in design and testing before releasing an update, we had to test a lot of things that we didn't expect them to ever be appeared, and also complained a lot, at times the outcry reached a climax. Obviously with our favorite games we always spend time waiting for a change in the right direction, although quite late, but we still wait, just hope this is not in vain.
    Firekid
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,010
    edited September 7
    Redesign was maybe the wrong word, I wouldn't expect them to go through each map and re-do them but I think when designing maps they need to consider how a map looks, the atmosphere created but also balance that by what strategy is needed and consider what tools we have available. Some of the newer maps we play and I just think, does anyone at NG actually play the game at endgame level with a full arsenal? Forget SPY, people have been clearing the challenge without dropping a star for a long, long time and the only thing that separated those people from some players who are doing it now is the cost of tools.

    Previously I used to ask what teams used and the answer evolved into which team and what tools were required. All SPY did was remove the 2nd part of it. Yumiko is one hero that realistically you don't even have to use. If you still want to use a variety of teams like you used to nothing is stopping you from doing that, you will still be able to beat basically every map with 3*. It just might cost you more tools and gold. Plain and simple.
    ADPaqFuriousMoldovanborneokidKilldozer187_
  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    Yep! Also a great idea, have said new walkers are needed for a while to make things harder again. But then when NG do this there is such outcry I’m not surprised they don’t like doing it. Fast walkers were universally hated originally, then they changed them and they are still hated. Granted they are walkers which are the bane of melee. So maybe need a new anti range walker which is immune to all status effects (including flares), but melee attacks do double damage or something. 

    ShadowWalkerdalmer
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,274
    @WellyLuga and @Mario_Romero


    That's exactly what I tried to convey in previous similar threads about "SPY this and that and such and such..."

    Feel like broken record here, but:
    nothing is wrong with SPY, it's a combination of things added over a long period of time that led to current LBs.

    You already got charge attacks limited to 1 per turn, which nerfed pre-SPY extra charges too (without Yumiko).

    Want leaner LBs? -need tools usage penalty added.
    Don't like SPY or ranged? -use any other very powerful melee team.


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    veadabadalmer
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 480
    Firekid said:
    veadaba said:
    I agree with @KhanhLe .
    Since appearance of SPY team, 

    I enjoy melee myself, I used it in rounds 60's and 70's in last weeks challenge. I also disagree with taking something away from people who invested the time, money, rerolls, badging, etc into building ranged teams. This isn't the answer. All that is going to end up doing is piss off a bunch of people and cause another mass exodus of players to exit the game. And that wouldn't be good for NG's bottom line. 😎
    They haven’t spent on building range teams. Theyve spent on one range team that works in 99% of maps. And those range hero’s are all brilliant in their own right so it’s not like they will have lost out on anything if they buff yumiko and nerf SPY as per my idea above. 
    You can easily spend $3000 on 3 perfect heros 😆
    veadaba
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,010
    edited September 7
    @WellyLuga and @Mario_Romero


    That's exactly what I tried to convey in previous similar threads about "SPY this and that and such and such..."

    Feel like broken record here, but:
    nothing is wrong with SPY, it's a combination of things added over a long period of time that led to current LBs.

    You already got charge attacks limited to 1 per turn, which nerfed pre-SPY extra charges too (without Yumiko).

    Want leaner LBs? -need tools usage penalty added.
    Don't like SPY or ranged? -use any other very powerful melee team.


    Yeah but they changed powerstrike so it actually only works when you don't move, haven't you heard? You have to actually stand still for it. Melee are useless now due to this massive, overwhelming nerf :trollface:
    ShadowWalkerFuriousMoldovan
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,172
    edited September 7
    At last! Some keen intellect in one of these threads! 

    I agree that bigger and better challenges are needed for us to showcase all of the skills (and troops/gear/etc) we have now and all of the skills we will learn in the days ahead.

    Some time ago I commented on this and suggested a new Walker type to the staff.

    The skeletal walker

    - skeletal can be a subclass added to any other Walker type indicating a walker that has rotted away the larger part of its flesh. This makes things difficult to burn or root, as there is little flesh for a harpoon to grab on or fire to burn. 

    Examples:
    -Skeletal Walker
    -Skeletal Tank walker
    -Skeletal Spiked walker

    It's easy enough to take it a step further and imagine melee weapons being more effective against these types of enemies possibly doing even double damage with reduce chance of body shot. 

    Perhaps a new subclass of melee weapons with the bludgeoning descriptor, as these would be more effective than blades or bullets




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  • FirekidFirekid Member Posts: 2,938
    I disagree there is nothing wrong with SPY, and yes we have new weapons which help, but having a fully charged assault when they have started the turn not charged every turn is overpowered. Also people are missing the point that changing her could actually bring more range hero’s into play adding variation and enjoyment etc. 
    Anyway, this dead horse has been beaten enough now and I will step away. 

    dalmer
  • VirtusVirtus Member Posts: 27
    edited September 7
    Give all melee characters an innate ability that would allow them to attack (even if needing to move to a target) and then move a half movement after the attack.  Kind of like how Pizza Glenn can move to open a crate and then move to open a second crate or attack.  This would help negate the advantage ranged has of being at a safe distance.  You could undo recent Power Strike changes with this change too.  It probably nullifies the tactical weapon trait, but I think the offsetting positives make this acceptable as a trade off.  You could also allow melee to take bruises and injuries and still give them three stars for beating a map. 
    The trickier issue is rooting/stunning special walkers.  Melee doesn't have that option and that is likely the biggest culprit in the advantage of ranged over melee.  Maybe some new weapons can be introduced that provide melee with the ability to stun/root tanks. Or, add it as an inherent feature of many already purchased weapons like Morning Star, Maces, Staves, etc.
    All of those ideas won't help make the game harder or prevent perfect challenge scores, but it equalizes melee and ranged to a great degree.  I'm not sure you can easily make the game harder since the introduction of the heroes and weapons that created this situation can't realistically be undone, so you probably need a new enemy type that is immune to these effects.  Challenges used to end when you ran into those tanks that couldn't be slowed down and had health far too high to kill in a reasonable time before they got you.  Remember the enhanced fire damage events?  It made some of those impossible maps beatable, but that event would be unnecessary in today's game.
    Bottom line is that the game either has to roll back many popular heroes/weapons (never going to happen), or we need new enemies or game mechanics that nullify advantages of all those weapons and heroes.  More walkers, stronger walkers or narrow GW-style Sanctuary maps aren't going to make a difference at this point.
    ghost_pepper
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,274
    WellyLuga said:
    @WellyLuga and @Mario_Romero


    That's exactly what I tried to convey in previous similar threads about "SPY this and that and such and such..."

    Feel like broken record here, but:
    nothing is wrong with SPY, it's a combination of things added over a long period of time that led to current LBs.

    You already got charge attacks limited to 1 per turn, which nerfed pre-SPY extra charges too (without Yumiko).

    Want leaner LBs? -need tools usage penalty added.
    Don't like SPY or ranged? -use any other very powerful melee team.


    Yeah but they changed powerstrike so it actually only works when you don't move, haven't you heard? You have to actually stand still for it. Melee are useless now due to this massive, overwhelming nerf :trollface:
    Oh yes I did! 😅
    And have been quite vocal against it in other threads, since I equally enjoy using both my powerful melee and my powerful ranged heroes.
    "Useless" is a very strong word though, I don't think it's fitting. But yes - PS change was very unnecessary.
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  • Mario_RomeroMario_Romero Member Posts: 231
    I was thinking of a "slime walker" myself. The Joker got bit before he fell into the barrel. :D
    So now he's covered in a thick layer of slime that absorbs bullets and that melee weapons are unable to penetrate. Because he is covered in slime he can't bite or scratch either so no or very little damage.

    It's "power" should be in the effect it has on other walkers.

    @Firekid take away harpoon, decimator and cripple/fire gun from SPY. I think you are too focused on Yumiko when it's more of a sum of the parts story.
    FuriousMoldovanWellyLuga
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 5,172
    Also they could make Goo walkers fireproof (soggy corspe after all) and your slime walkers too @Mario_Romero


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  • ShadowWalkerShadowWalker Member Posts: 873
    In another thread I had suggested that Armored Walkers should be  immune to status effects caused by ranged attacks (perhaps with the exception to fire). It makes sense right? They're wearing bullet proof armor after all. They're also in a lot of maps already, so it would be a better option than coming up with a new enemy that we only see in a couple of map sets.

    I also like the idea of an enemy that melee does more damage to. Maybe that doesn't even have to be a new walker either, perhaps melee can have a built in 20% less chance of body shot against normal walkers?
    veadaba
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 480
    My vote is for removing the 80 round weekly challenge cap. May the best SPY team and tool bag win.

    I'm here for it
    FuriousMoldovanATLAS-ZShadowWalker
  • BillbamBillbam Member Posts: 1,142
    My vote is for removing the 80 round weekly challenge cap. May the best SPY team and tool bag win.

    I'm here for it
    And we KNOW you will push to round 100 every week!  hahaha 😍
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  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 480
    Also: can we overhaul the outpost and bring it into the year 2021?

    My idea would be to finally make the walker pit viable by adding high level special walkers, metalheads, skinny, spikes. Let us place human defenders inside of the map with walkers. Make the rewards worth playing for since trade goods alone are not worth the price of admission. Toss in random phones, hero tokens, gold, tools, etc like you did with the last stand.

    Cap it at 3 runs per day
    ATLAS-ZShadowWalker
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 480
    Billbam said:
    My vote is for removing the 80 round weekly challenge cap. May the best SPY team and tool bag win.

    I'm here for it
    And we KNOW you will push to round 100 every week!  hahaha 😍
    Negative lol
  • Killdozer187_Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 480
    WellyLuga said:
    Redesign was maybe the wrong word, I wouldn't expect them to go through each map and re-do them but I think when designing maps they need to consider how a map looks, the atmosphere created but also balance that by what strategy is needed and consider what tools we have available. Some of the newer maps we play and I just think, does anyone at NG actually play the game at endgame level with a full arsenal? Forget SPY, people have been clearing the challenge without dropping a star for a long, long time and the only thing that separated those people from some players who are doing it now is the cost of tools.

    Previously I used to ask what teams used and the answer evolved into which team and what tools were required. All SPY did was remove the 2nd part of it. Yumiko is one hero that realistically you don't even have to use. If you still want to use a variety of teams like you used to nothing is stopping you from doing that, you will still be able to beat basically every map with 3*. It just might cost you more tools and gold. Plain and simple.
    Agree, there really is only a handful of maps that require you to use that particular team to pass at nosebleed levels 😀
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