Let's increase the difficulty of GW

Every game mode has become easier over time (like it should), but GW has now become so easy that it's no longer the exciting battle it used to be.

If we think back a little bit, here's what's changed since the current format of GW was introduced:

Things that make GW harder
- Max difficulty increased from lvl 47 to lvl 49
- PvP defender teams instead of just some random heroes

Things that make GW easier
- Red gas
- Tools
- Supports
- Cripple ability
- SPY and SMY teams
- Some of the hardest maps were removed
- Gate opening times decreased
- No more maps with both spawn piles and threat counter
- No need to wait for other players to open your sectors, giving more playing time

All this means a lot of players now breeze through lvl 49 missions, and matches are now purely decided on which team used less red gas - and red gas usually happen due to momentary lapses in concentration (i.e. didn't notice Spikey wasn't rooted but only crippled / shot at fast walker when next to it so it could retaliate etc) - very seldom it's the case that the mission simply was too hard for the players' ability.

So here are a few simple suggestions to bring back some challenge into GW:
- Bring back those unbalanced maps. With the current tool bag (tools, supports, SPY/SMY) they will most probably be perfectly ok, just a bit harder than the current maps.
- Bring back the chance of both threat spawn and piles in the same map
- Bring back longer gate opening times

This should be quite easy to implement and the risk of unforseen bugs is minimal.

Other things that require more development:
- Give an extra two points if a mission is completed without the use of tools
- Restrict the classes you use during the whole GW week, for example on week 1 only allow Warriors / Bruisers / Hunters or on week 2 only allow Shooters / Assaults / Scouts. This would totally change the dynamics and we would go back to the times where teams really had to think about which sectors they could attempt - and trying to figure out what sectors the opponent is working on would be useful once again. Maybe limit this to 1-2 weeks per season.



Ingame username: Jubjab
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Comments

  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 83
    Nah, I'm fine without having to use tools on RSL 49  :D
    Sarge_FuriousMoldovan
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    edited October 2021
    Edit: I could be here all day explaining what they destroyed in GW but I can’t be f’ed but have to type now since I started. 
    BurmeliinisShadowWalkerFuriousMoldovan
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    edited October 2021
    Threat counter and spawn piles? The evil maps? Surely you mean for only the highest level gw islands in sanctuary only. 

    Deduct 5 points for each tool used, eliminate the use of supports, and greatly increase the walker difficulty levels for the last sanctuary islands. Then the nosebleed players can go back to hating and complaining and the rest of us won't since we don't play there.
    ATLAS-ZShadowWalkerPasteFuriousMoldovanaquilaKurganwmsAnjelosRiotZappa
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,252
    Edit: I could be here all day explaining what they destroyed in GW but I can’t be f’ed but have to type now since I started. 
    How slow do you type? 

    Yumiko. There you go, I saved you a day :sunglasses:
    ATLAS-ZShadowWalkerPasteFuriousMoldovanAnjelos
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    WellyLuga said:
    Edit: I could be here all day explaining what they destroyed in GW but I can’t be f’ed but have to type now since I started. 
    How slow do you type? 

    Yumiko. There you go, I saved you a day :sunglasses:


    Well before Yumiko I recall lots and lots of hate about tools and GW maps pay to win


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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    Sarge_FuriousMoldovan
  • avelardezavelardez Member Posts: 1,341
    How about we go back to Sasha and Eugene and RGG with this new trait.  
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,296
    Most important:
    if bringing mixed spawns back - make spawn type visible on the mission screen before starting it, so we can chose teams accordingly👍
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    NatsuDark
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,296
    Threat counter and spawn piles? The evil maps? Surely you mean for only the highest level gw islands in sanctuary only. 

    Deduct 5 points for each tool used, eliminate the use of supports, and greatly increase the walker difficulty levels for the last sanctuary islands. Then the nosebleed players can go back to hating and complaining and the rest of us won't since we don't play there.

    Agree with all.
    Even better - new island 21 where all this is implemented ;)

    And only in island 21, so it doesn't hurt average player.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    Kratosghost_pepperwmsTheKing
  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,252
    ATLAS-Z said:
    WellyLuga said:
    Edit: I could be here all day explaining what they destroyed in GW but I can’t be f’ed but have to type now since I started. 
    How slow do you type? 

    Yumiko. There you go, I saved you a day :sunglasses:


    Well before Yumiko I recall lots and lots of hate about tools and GW maps pay to win
    Ah don't get me wrong I am very pro Yumiko. It might have ruined compatible play but I was never too serious about that. I was almost like a nagging housewife when it came to tools and the P2W side of things :lol:
    FuriousMoldovan
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    I'm glad that you are that high!
    Just one advice if you want to feel more difficult in Gw go there without badges and don't load the supports.

    All those are your own decisions.

    As a guild leader I always ask are you hard player or casual player? So I i assigned the island for quick or to health required
    BurmeliinisAnjelos
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    pollorex said:
    I'm glad that you are that high!
    Just one advice if you want to feel more difficult in Gw go there without badges and don't load the supports.

    All those are your own decisions.

    As a guild leader I always ask are you hard player or casual player? So I i assigned the island for quick or to health required
    Not sure if you are trying to be funny or what your point was?

    GW is a competition against an opposing team. Of course you will use the tools at your disposal to win the battle, doing anything else would just be stupid.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756
    None of these changes will make things harder for the best ranged strategies right now, they will only Cripple melee again. 

    So I say no thank you. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
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    Kurganpollorex
  • KurganKurgan Member Posts: 25
    only a very small % of game players can complete island 20 even with SPY and tools, so i suggest you remove yourself from your elitist horse, and go play something else if you find the game too easy and let the rest of us enjoy it as it is.
    ADPaqwms
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    I don't think you really understand what these changes have done to GW. It is not a problem only for top players, but it actually is a even bigger problem for mid-level guilds. 

    As it is now, it is extremely rare to completely fail a mission, and unless you play with a team of 6 you can afford a few fails and still close the maximum amount of islands. Basically this means

    - that the team that plays the harder islands will always win
    - if both teams play the same islands, fails + red gas will decide the victory
    - top teams will have very few fails & red gas, so there is a real risk of a draw

    So for mid-level guilds, who follow a plan and not just randomly play whatever every player feels like, need to out-wait their opponent to see which sectors they are working on, and then do a slightly harder sector. We have seen several posts from mid-level players complaining about this and why they are always losing. By reintroducing a bit more difficulty we can again return to the situation where you need to decide which sectors you think you can do, but sometimes you could end up trying a too hard island and lose that way - or take that risk and get the great feeling when you win.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    edited October 2021
    But as mentioned, for me the main issue is that we now have the ridiculous situation that to win the GW season the top guilds should do everything to not meet another top guild, as that risks a draw and a 1.25 modifier, meaning a lot of lost points. So I would be happy with my proposed changes applying only to islands 19 and 20.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,185
    edited October 2021
    I was only half joking with my suggestions above. Make them or something like them applicable to 19/20. 

    As for the shark infested water of the mid-range difficulty, maybe make a 5D for Forrest and a 12D for Junkyard. Then, rebalance ALL the D nodes including the Junkyard ones so they are a little different in difficulty and in vp/rp. Option 1 is D gives same vp as AB but with more difficulty so more rp. Option 2 is give D more vp than AB but with same difficulty and with more rp than AB but less rp than C, encouraging them to be played as a bonus.

    If midranges groups lose but they do the bonuses, they get a lot more rp now and if groups are tracking to win by only a few hundred points they (probably) aren't pulling in as many of these wild card variables.

    So my idea and point is this:
    Difficulty will work at separating guilds in the max levels of play in islands 19 and 20, maybe even tool use affecting rp. Greater variety in vp and especially rp will spice up the mid-range play. If a midrange team knows they're going to lose, they can do the biggest rp grab possible to midigate that loss and take the sting out of it.
  • DaiikoDaiiko Member Posts: 150
    Quand c'est difficile ont ce plaint, quand c'est facile ont ce plaint 🤣🤣🤣🤣 si vous voulez mettre de la difficulter partez en mission avec Ezekiel. Gabriel. Jerry
    Et après vous pouvez dire que la GW est facile 🤣🤣🤣🤣
  • fragcandancefragcandance Member Posts: 39
    I agree that GW is too easy. When two top guilds clash, who will win is more the question of luck, than skill. However, instead of returning to unbalanced diffilculty I would rather suggest just to increase the difficulty of top islands. Say, add 3 more islands with 50-52 max lvl zombies with no KAW levels on it. 
  • ArnoldasArnoldas Member Posts: 32
    Just change the draw with 1.5 multiplier for both teams, that will solve the problems, nothing else needed, it is fine as it is right now. 
    fragcandancen00bs7eyeW8
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    pollorex said:
    I'm glad that you are that high!
    Just one advice if you want to feel more difficult in Gw go there without badges and don't load the supports.

    All those are your own decisions.

    As a guild leader I always ask are you hard player or casual player? So I i assigned the island for quick or to health required
    Not sure if you are trying to be funny or what your point was?

    GW is a competition against an opposing team. Of course you will use the tools at your disposal to win the battle, doing anything else would just be stupid.
    I just give you a tip to feel more hard and get interested again!.

     
    Burmeliinis
  • pollorexpollorex Member Posts: 261
    We don't use tool just because we know our power.

    We know how many points we will get at the hole war we just focus to unlock what needs.


    If you are asking your self why a middle guild don't care about is cuz that keeps us in our level and getting all the reward need
    Burmeliinis
  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 83
    GW is a competition against an opposing team.
    To lots of guilds I know, it is just RP farming mode, no point in pushing to top 50, 40, 30, etc. When you have the same plan against every opponent, it saves a lot of time and gold/tools. Win-win situation.
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,223
    n00b said:
    GW is a competition against an opposing team.
    To lots of guilds I know, it is just RP farming mode, no point in pushing to top 50, 40, 30, etc. When you have the same plan against every opponent, it saves a lot of time and gold/tools. Win-win situation.
    Each guild can of course play how they want, but you do get a pretty substantial 50% bonus if you win so even if you don't care at all about winning or leaderboards it's still very beneficial to win your battles.

    Now as NG is clearly working on adding some new elements to the challenge to eliminate the current ridiculous situation of possibly not being in the top 100 even if you get the max 4878 score, they should do the same to GW. GW as of now is too predictable and routine for the vast majority of players. We need something to spice things up!

     
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • n00bn00b Member Posts: 83
    We need something to spice things up!
    Fully agree with that, GW needs to reward players for making it into top 3, 10, 20, 30, 40... etc. Right now, it is pointless to try hard.
    Maybe guilds can have levels similar to supports and leaderboard rewards can be a certain amount of guild tokens. Each level can give certain bonus, like healing time reduction, upgrade time reduction, an extra crate unlocks, extra grey, brown, green components from mission crates (instead of 1 it would give 2-3) or something else.
  • sumsikowskisumsikowski Member Posts: 82
    Arnoldas said:
    Just change the draw with 1.5 multiplier for both teams, that will solve the problems, nothing else needed, it is fine as it is right now. 
    thats a good idea. when both guilds max, why should they be punished with 1,25 multiplier.
    thats nonsense
    BurmeliinisATLAS-Z
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,756


    Yeah man, if you can tie for gold medal in the Olympics, I think NML can make this happen as well. 

    1.5x double victory! @Lexia


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
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    Send me a PM
    BurmeliinisFuriousMoldovan
  • cyberopticscyberoptics Member Posts: 15
    And here I am with one star purple SAY (princess isn't purple yet) with full gold badges and I'm maxed at 36s while you talk about being bored at 49s. I'm not sure how many folks are in your boat or what I'm doing horribly wrong, but do share some ranged GW videos to help the rest of us give you a better run. 😅
    FuriousMoldovan
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,296
    edited October 2021
    And here I am with one star purple SAY (princess isn't purple yet) with full gold badges and I'm maxed at 36s while you talk about being bored at 49s. I'm not sure how many folks are in your boat or what I'm doing horribly wrong, but do share some ranged GW videos to help the rest of us give you a better run. 😅
    Some of them, on 19 though not 20 :)
    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLukUux8VxHFzPQpmyCS61O5sQ0VX-J8fk
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • NoiseratingNoiserating Member Posts: 189
    Why not increase the difficulty on (boss)hero level ? Those are really the easy ones right now.
    Bring special walkers in the party at the same time, it would bring more challenge.
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    Why not increase the difficulty on (boss)hero level ? Those are really the easy ones right now.
    Bring special walkers in the party at the same time, it would bring more challenge.
    Let us badge our Toons
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