ELO rating for Guild War points & ranking

ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
Current GW ranking gives too much weight to guilds who purposefully find ways to avoid playing other top guilds. Which is not very hard to do. There is public data as to which days top guilds are playing how many people in a team, all you have to do is run simple statistical analysis and that’s it.

why not change scoring and use ELO rating system already commonly used in chess. The gist of this is that losing (or drawing) highly ranked guild should be better rewarded than winning from low tier guild. This is pure doing mathematical calculation so should be rather easy to implement.


Comments

  • i think you didn't catch the time of the star hero in Guld Wars otherwise you wouldn't have offered such wise formulas.
  • in this season for example Sweden didn't hide from all top guilds
    top guilds just ignore them before was too late to do something
    WDW76brucewayne007
  • WDW76WDW76 Member Posts: 59
    WE have now been in beta for 12 long guild wars and small problems have not been solved and you come around the corner with such a "simple" formula.

    Made my day
  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,164
    The only reason why chess ranking works is because it keeps running and keeps running and keeps running. If we have gw that never ends, then yes. But we don't. We have a season, and we have waaay too many variables in play for that to work.

    Some guilds play twice as many days as other guilds. Some guilds play twice as many players as other guilds. There are extreme outlier groups that push those two things even further making these systems of measurement completely futile.

    We have this dumb silver 1 reset which is abused and also doesn't work because we're not in a zero sum system. 

    We also have players shifting around in guilds midseason and that changes things heavily when ranking the guilds themselves. Players can jump out of a quickly ranking guild early in the season down into a burner, max their scores there too, then hop back to their first guild to finish the season with easy opponents they continue to max their points on. We don't hear as much about this because the shop is usually so... uninspired.

    A chess ranking system fixes none of that.
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
    @CroKK_onemoretime depends on your moral compass

    I did the same analysis and I knew if you go with teams of 9x4 days + teams of 4 then you will not meet top guild 99% of the time. Few times you'll meet top guild, tough luck. But overall I knew the 1.5 multiplier is more than enough to compensate the points scored less than maximum.

    I advocated exactly this strategy with my guild at the beginning of the season. Some think this will constitute unsportsmanlike conduct.

    I don't agree with them being it is unfair or unsportsmanlike. If the system is made in such way, you play within the system, fair is fair.

    But call it what it is. Sweden is hiding from other top guild. You can make up whatever euphemism you want, but they're hiding alright. Hiding in plain sight, but hiding regardless.


    brucewayne007FuriousMoldovanghost_pepper
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    ZXer said:
    @CroKK_onemoretime depends on your moral compass

    I did the same analysis and I knew if you go with teams of 9x4 days + teams of 4 then you will not meet top guild 99% of the time. Few times you'll meet top guild, tough luck. But overall I knew the 1.5 multiplier is more than enough to compensate the points scored less than maximum.

    I advocated exactly this strategy with my guild at the beginning of the season. Some think this will constitute unsportsmanlike conduct.

    I don't agree with them being it is unfair or unsportsmanlike. If the system is made in such way, you play within the system, fair is fair.

    But call it what it is. Sweden is hiding from other top guild. You can make up whatever euphemism you want, but they're hiding alright. Hiding in plain sight, but hiding regardless.


    Hahahahahah mate Sweden wasn’t hiding you dim wit. 
    They played 99994 for convenience. They didn’t hide from any teams nor did they chase any team. Sweden solely focused on there game and that’s all. 
    Sweden didn’t choose 9 to hide from other top teams. 9 was chosen so there was very little to pile. 
    It would allow to have 2 spare swords and therefore only 2 swords/people to do this just once. Where all the other swords were allocated to playing sections. This is not hiding
    this is playing a game that was convenient to them. 
    The days they chose to play was based on their Real life commitments, nothing to do with what other teams did. 
    Man you a fricken ignorant to be thinking that Sweden hid. I can tell you right now, your statement is 100% wrong. 
    If they wanted to continue to hide as you say, why would they continue to play 99994 on the final week when all the other top guilds were aware of what they were playing and risk playing them. You can’t blame a guild for not caring who they faced and just played what is convenient for their lifestyle 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 4
    ZXer said:
    @CroKK_onemoretime depends on your moral compass

    I did the same analysis and I knew if you go with teams of 9x4 days + teams of 4 then you will not meet top guild 99% of the time. Few times you'll meet top guild, tough luck. But overall I knew the 1.5 multiplier is more than enough to compensate the points scored less than maximum.

    I advocated exactly this strategy with my guild at the beginning of the season. Some think this will constitute unsportsmanlike conduct.

    I don't agree with them being it is unfair or unsportsmanlike. If the system is made in such way, you play within the system, fair is fair.

    But call it what it is. Sweden is hiding from other top guild. You can make up whatever euphemism you want, but they're hiding alright. Hiding in plain sight, but hiding regardless.


    look, in the beginning of the season you don't know what tactics will choose majors, Sweden play same tactics as previous season also Mavs OG play this line up in previous season. Couple seasons ago WW play this tactic every major play this tactic at least one war. You can't predict this when season start.
    Sweden win because they play very good in this season and no one go for them on 9-4. 
    Paste
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
    @brucewayne007dude say what you want to make yourself feel better. I don’t judge you but your argument does not hold water.

    you play teams of 8 or 6 or combination of and do not pile and will still end up at higher max score than playing teams of 9

    the fact that you are defending “them” (yourself?) means you know exactly what you are doing.
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
    @CroKK_onemoretime you can’t? Of course you can. I did. I brought this up to my guild. They didnt agree to use this strategy.

    again I don’t judge you. If it were up to me I would have used this strategy. My guild though - they didn’t agree.


  • ghost_pepperghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,164
    Does the leader board offer any particular prize or other special reward?

    No.

    It's one of many ways guilds can measure themselves in gw. There are lots of different forms of measurement. The only thing that matters at the end of the season is if you're happy with your guilds performance. We had 1 loss all season and it was to a top 10 guild so I'm happy with that. If you answer that question honestly and you are not happy, then move upwards into some new guild.
    ShadowWalker
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
    edited January 5
    @ghost_pepper - of course. This is why I’m agnostic and it’s up to you to consider what is a “win”

    To me personally a win is a win. Sweden did a good job playing the game the way it is meant to be played - by understanding fully the game mechanics and use it to their advantage. What is wrong with this? And anyone thinks this is wrong can help me understand why this is wrong while paying $$$$ just to get your Mercer to 5 pink  will give you “better” win? Sweden’s strategy requires brain power, 5 pink Mercer strategy requires wallet power. Some people got brain power, some other got thick wallet.

    To be clear there is RP reward though. Not that it matters because at their level they’ll be swimming in RP and there is only so many rerolls you can buy - rest, I guess you can pile on green and red gas.


  • echonapechonap Member Posts: 176
    They should just get rid of VP multiplier. Winning team gets RP multiplier, which is still beneficial and worth fighting for each individual match, but the season winner is who got the most VP overall without multipliers
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    Mate you are an absolute goose. 

    9 was played solely for the fact that only 2 people would pile and it was convenient to organise. 
    You can think what you want. But I know this to be 100% correct. 
    So think what you will. But you are wrong. 
    Enjoy your day….. being wrong 
    ShadowWalker
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    Did Sweden play 99994 to win the whole thing…. F no. It was just the way the cookie crumbled 

    What guild are you in? You are very sour bro. Dark because Sweden won by playing what suited them. 
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    If you can do simple math….. work it out then. 

    Play 9 and you have 2 swords leftover. 
    Easy peasy, only 2 to pile. You dim wit
  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,097
    @ZXer
    Neither of those who responded are from Sweden guild, they are just trying to talk sense to you based on many years of experience (especially @CroKK_onemoretime, when it comes to GW stats - that's literally what he does). If I were you, I'd at least try to hear what they're saying ;)

    Sorry, not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm sure your comments achieved the exact opposite. Cheers.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • ZXerZXer Member Posts: 158
    edited January 5
    @brucewayne007 why do you have to pile? There is no obligation to pile, people do it to maximize score.

    But 

    If you play teams of 6 + teams of 8 and do not pile, you still score more than you would if you play 4x teams of 9 + teams of 4

    Did you not read my comment in entirety? I said I respect Sweden, not sour.

    There may be valid reasons to play teams of 9 - for example if some people can play only over 4 days. Sure then as you say they are just doing this to suit them, and this is confirmable mathematically.

  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    @ZXer This is going to my last reply to this. I have no energy to emphasise what I already have. But I will give you some basic numbers that you can hopefully understand. 

    Yes you can score more as whole for the team running for example 666688 
    As a T6 is 86.04 VP per sword and T8 is 83.52 VP 
    Playing T9 you only receive 82.19 VP which is far less and a T4 85.83 VP

    Playing T9 you have an allocation of 162 swords which you only require 160 to adequately play maximum possible section points. You have 2 swords spare which gives you a buffer incase of a freak accident/NG error (lol) so therefore very little effort for the team to worry about organisation as it’s very clear cut in what needs to be done. 
    By running 99994 you also get a day off. As I stated this is to benefit the team with RL and convenience. 
    If the team was to play all 6 days it goes against the convenience of having a day off and going 666688 to try and maximise every possible point available, you therefore have a number of extra swords to use to continue maximising the possible outcome. You basically have very little room for error. 
    As the team varies in ability, they have to play within their own constraints and what fits in with Real life. 
    Hand on my heart! The decision of playing 9 had nothing to do with what other teams did and played. It was purely a convenient factor. Plenty of points were given away by not choosing to play 6 days and playing what had worked for RL. The fact that it lead to a victory wasn’t taken into account until the final week. Teams could of easily chased us and played 9 as we didn’t hide the fact what we were doing as many other teams swap and trick others with their numbers. Sweden stuck to playing what suited them as a team and gave zero thought into what others were playing. If you saw them switch all their numbers to not coincide with the 1st 3 weeks, yes you would have an argument of Sweden ducking and hiding. 
    But this wasn’t the case. There was no hiding, just playing the game to fit in with the holidays and to give little stress to the players over the holidays. Sweden had days of perfect battles so if a top team came along the team was not worried and would fight to the end. 
    I hope you can understand this more clearly and stop with your 1 eye view. 

  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    You must remember that some teams don’t play Guild wars to squeeze every possible point available. 
    Not everyone lives and breathes it and play this game for fun on the side. 
    It just so happened that Sweden won many games and didn’t draw like TLOU who in reality were the best team. 
    It’s just the way it went. 
    Be gracious, appreciate a new victor, and move onto the next. Good day sir
  • brucewayne007brucewayne007 Member Posts: 659
    But 

    If you play teams of 6 + teams of 8 and do not pile, you still score more than you would if you play 4x teams of 9 + teams of 4

    On this- yes I understand the T6 requirements no pile. It’s a perfect number
    Some teams are blessed to never have the risk. Not all teams can have this luxury and like a small buffer
    Convenience is the term here, and we want a day off. RL brother. Some of us have one
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