Mercer has destroyed interest in the guild war.

DonTwdDonTwd Member Posts: 5
edited June 16 in Guild Wars Discussion
Mercer is too unbalanced.  This hero completely destroyed the interest in the guild war.  Now all enemies die in 1-2 turns. 
 New maps after the update brought freshness, but also passed without effort with the help of an unbalanced Mercer.  This hero broke the balance of the game too much.
  You should have done it in the warrior class, melees need a hero like that, but gun teams don't.  
The game is getting more and more boring... Or make sure that only melee heroes can go to some guild war islands. 
 And in challenge Mercer kills everything like a nuclear weapon, it's a pity that this hero is not a warrior.
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Comments

  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    Agree. Even mid-tier guilds get max score now, so it's more a question of "who did a stupid mistake or wasn't paying attention" instead of "who is the best player and has put in most effort to develop his/her team" when deciding who wins.

    The only solution I can see is to introduce a system similar to Last Stand's Expert Mode. 

    Give a select random amount of heroes available for each island (so let's say ten heroes for island 20 and ten others for island 19). If you use these, you get x % extra points. And make it so that these hero selections are the same for every guild battling that day (not just the opposing teams but every single guild).

    Please, @Lexia ?
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  • NovellNovell Member Posts: 372
    edited June 16
    GW = SMY wars! 
    Proud member of WEIRDnDEADLY
    WastelandManZardoxxeniia
  • find2046find2046 Member Posts: 135
    how about each hero can be selected once at each GW battle day?

  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    find2046 said:
    how about each hero can be selected once at each GW battle day?

    The problem with this approach is that it would require a huge amount of coordination. Basically, when the battle starts, the team coordinator would have to go through all missions, and pick out the hardest ones and distribute one of these to every team member for their SMY team. Then the next hardest to the SPY team, and so on and on. Kill All Walkers missions would have to be saved, and everybody would want to do an equal amount of pvp.

    So yes, this would in theory be interesting and definitely a guild battle, where the best overall teams would win, but it would probably be a little bit of too much work and less organized guilds would probably hate it.

    But an interesting idea, maybe worth trying!
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  • Stalker20Stalker20 Member Posts: 1,262
    @Burmeliinis by mid-tier I assume that you mean silver 3 to gold 1? I can assure you that no guilds we've met are getting maximum score. We're in gold 2 and have gone through the tiers to get there. Always remember what you find easy others will struggle with. 
    Thüringerxeniia
  • DonTwdDonTwd Member Posts: 5
    edited June 17
    yes, yes, with SMY and bloated heroes, everyone is strong, ahaha, top here, top there, remove Mercer and Yumiko from the game, and everyone will forget how to play and make maximum points in each battle 😂
    EngAamieWastelandMan
  • DonTwdDonTwd Member Posts: 5
    edited June 17
    Mercer is a warrior, that's who will improve the game.  Mercer - assault  broke the whole balance, especially in the war of guilds, there are no other teams other than SMY in missions against walkers, it's monotonous and boring.  It's easier to fix a mercer than to make a hard island for him, on which there should be fast metalists (unstunned) fast spikes that go to three cells of the grid, slugs spitting poison, which should respond to the hero's attack with acid within a radius of 4 cells ...

    For example, make one very difficult island so that each mission is like the challenge of the last round 80. So that only champion teams can go to it.

    Only such enemies can compete with Mercer if there are many of them, because Mercer is unbalanced.  It's easier to bring this hero down to earth than to raise the level of opponents to the strength of this hero.
     but it's all hard to do, ieasier - better to change Mercer role, make him a warrior, melee combat will then become more popular in guild wars.

    Or forbid walking to some islands with firearms and you can leave everything as it is now.
    EngAamieWastelandManxeniiaanniesprinkles
  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 181
    edited June 17
    They could also just add a fourth area to GWs that would be similar to Nightmare mode of Challenge -- maybe call it Terminus -- have the countdown spawns and maybe even the spawn piles be special walkers. I think that would make GWs harder.
    EngAamieWastelandMananniesprinkles
  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    edited June 17
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Ps if you think the game is too one dimensional these days here's a good idea for you.

    Put some time into making suggestions on how to improve melee and other heroes you'd like to see. (like many of us do already). 

    HELP make other things in the game great, rather than complaining about the things that are already great.

    And definitely don't make me use shit-garbage teams cuz you're bored with Mercer. 
    When guilds that are barely in the top 100 in guild wars do max points (examples: RO Addicted, place #78 at the moment and Bagofhammers, place #84), it is a fact that GW is simply far too easy. 

    Making other heroes better will not solve this problem, it will make it even worse.

    Making the maps harder or introducing harder walkers will further solidify SMY as the only possible choice of team.

    As I see it the only solution is to do an expert mode, with limited amount of heroes, giving more points. Then you can still use SMY if you want, but at cost of VP. 

    This would bring back some of the good old days of GW, where you had to analyze the hard missions and think if they look managable, try to understand what your opponent is doing, and to take some risk. Try a hard mission with a non-optimal team and take the win if you succeed, or lose if you fail. 

    PS. I am also a bit surprised that you seem to suggest that I only complain and don't do things to make this game great
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  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,597
    edited June 17
    @Burmeliinis it's not meant to be an attack on you personally, I'll be honest I didn't pay attention this who said what.

    Take my comment as a generic rebuke of this thread in general.

    I'll kindly say no to an expert mode for Guild Wars as well. I do that every week in The Last Stand and it's rather dull.

    And to suggest that it would be optional is no more true then saying it's optional to replace these crappy troops right now. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • BurmeliinisBurmeliinis Member Posts: 1,194
    Last Stand Expert Mode is dull because the stakes are so low. With a mediocre 5 minute run you get to wave 20 to get the support tokens and get into the top 1-2%. Really focus, use tools, and play well and you get the same amount of support tokens and get into the top 100. Don't play at all and nobody cares.

    GW is totally different, as you play together with your guildmates, so what you do or don't do has an impact on your buddies.

    If this is done right, you will not be forced to use the expert roster. Optimally, it would be near suicide to go into a regular island 20 mission with the Expert roster, so those missions you would still play with SMY (except KAW:s). But maybe the team would then have to consider, if it's better to play island 16 with the expert team, instead of island 18 with SMY (assuming that would net you more points). 

    Is this a perfect solution? Of course not. But I can't think of anything better either. 
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  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,597
    Last Stand Expert Mode is dull because the stakes are so low. With a mediocre 5 minute run you get to wave 20 to get the support tokens and get into the top 1-2%. Really focus, use tools, and play well and you get the same amount of support tokens and get into the top 100. Don't play at all and nobody cares.

    GW is totally different, as you play together with your guildmates, so what you do or don't do has an impact on your buddies.

    If this is done right, you will not be forced to use the expert roster. Optimally, it would be near suicide to go into a regular island 20 mission with the Expert roster, so those missions you would still play with SMY (except KAW:s). But maybe the team would then have to consider, if it's better to play island 16 with the expert team, instead of island 18 with SMY (assuming that would net you more points). 

    Is this a perfect solution? Of course not. But I can't think of anything better either. 

    I see your point of view, it's very carefully thought out with good points, and i can respect some (mostly elite) players might share this view. 

    But as we are all entitled to our opinions, mine is still... No thanks. Sorry bro. Cheers. Sometimes my opinion doesn't mean squat lol. Most times. 


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  • capibaracapibara Member Posts: 7,083
    haha! that's totally pointless.. this game is never that same. Mercer is the must until they will decide you have to change..so you will start upgrading a new toon to be competitive… you can also chose to not upgrade the “new must” as the whole community… and it's done. just play as you want
    all that is also a great value for the game… indeed we have been playing this for 7 years.. this is unbelievable for every commercial game
    ..it changes… first it was ranged teams, then melee… than bruisers game.. than hero games.. then appeared Beta.. then Zeke… Spys and smys…and go on..
     Mercer will be obsolete before Xmas.. and not because of you 😜
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  • DonTwdDonTwd Member Posts: 5
    edited June 17
    lol, I did the maximum in the guild war on a profile account of 65 or 67, with heroes of level 22, you don't need a strong account there to take the maximum..
    ---
    Now the maximum can be done on an account that is a little over six months old, if there is a harpoon, a deciminator, and an incendiary crippling weapon.  No purple stars or hero badges needed.
    Noiseratinganniesprinkles
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,597
    DonTwd said:
    lol, I did the maximum in the guild war on a profile account of 65 or 67, with heroes of level 22, you don't need a strong account there to take the maximum..
    ---
    Now the maximum can be done on an account that is a little over six months old, if there is a harpoon, a deciminator, and an incendiary crippling weapon.  No purple stars or hero badges needed.

    And for every old fart veteran that's bored there's 2 players who've returned  and are enjoying the game again. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • WellyLugaWellyLuga Member Posts: 3,234
    Shezza10 said:
    Mercer is not the problem, if my Mercer gets sent to hospital I use Princess, if she’s in hospital I use Rosita. I can still complete islands 20 with the same heroes (albeit slightly trickier when there are Spikey’s around).
    We’ve had Sasha exactly as she is for years so that just leaves Yumi. Case closed.
    Personally I think it’s the combination SMY/SPY that is OP and not really one individual. Leave poor little Mercer alone 😉
    Agreed, it's 100% the Y part that is what makes the game easier. Yes Mercer's trait is crazy powerful, Princess is basically guaranteed to charge up every turn but it's the double attack/charged every turn that changes things. 

    I can see both sides, thankfully I've taken a step back so I'm playing very much casual but something does need to change. I'm not paying the most attention but when guilds are playing entire weeks/seasons with max points then it's a clue that it needs a bit more spice added. 

    I'm siding more with Atlas though, I don't play LS but it's bad enough being hamstrung with team selections in the challenge. I don't want to see it in GW too. 
    Shezza10anniesprinkles
  • DyAmondDyAmond Member Posts: 94
    DonTwd said:
    Mercer is too unbalanced.  This hero completely destroyed the interest in the guild war.  Now all enemies die in 1-2 turns. 
     New maps after the update brought freshness, but also passed without effort with the help of an unbalanced Mercer.  This hero broke the balance of the game too much.
      You should have done it in the warrior class, melees need a hero like that, but gun teams don't.  
    The game is getting more and more boring... Or make sure that only melee heroes can go to some guild war islands. 
     And in challenge Mercer kills everything like a nuclear weapon, it's a pity that this hero is not a warrior.
    Speak for yourself, i most of time use Teams like EER (Ezekiel, Eugene, S.Rick) and score perfects on 18 and even 20
    even Teams with Guardian Carol or Alpha with no Mercer
    WastelandManZardoxHirntod
  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 181
    edited June 18
    DyAmond said:
    DonTwd said:
    Mercer is too unbalanced.  This hero completely destroyed the interest in the guild war.  Now all enemies die in 1-2 turns. 
     New maps after the update brought freshness, but also passed without effort with the help of an unbalanced Mercer.  This hero broke the balance of the game too much.
      You should have done it in the warrior class, melees need a hero like that, but gun teams don't.  
    The game is getting more and more boring... Or make sure that only melee heroes can go to some guild war islands. 
     And in challenge Mercer kills everything like a nuclear weapon, it's a pity that this hero is not a warrior.
    Speak for yourself, i most of time use Teams like EER (Ezekiel, Eugene, S.Rick) and score perfects on 18 and even 20
    even Teams with Guardian Carol or Alpha with no Mercer
    I'm guessing that fewer players can do 20 perfectly without SPY/SMY though overall. And if that was still too easy, add Nightmare mode spawning specials in addition to banning Sasha, Mercer, Princess, and Yumiko from Sanctuary. That would make it harder for more people. Or create a new set of islands worth more than Sanctuary with the 4 hero ban.

    Sanctuary is also easier with the addition of the new open maps. Sanctuary could at least be restored to the way it was. Or to make it harder than before, you could reduce it to just the worst 3-4 maps. Players could also design more maze maps and shift the others to Junkyard.

    I definitely agree that Mercer is not the issue. I have not had a loss or used red gas in many seasons in 19 and 20, and I've never used Mercer in GWs, just SPY. I assume if someone can do GWs max levels with SMY they also can with SPY, but that it just takes longer to kill special walkers.
  • DonTwdDonTwd Member Posts: 5
    edited June 18
    haha, while you go 2-5 missions Ezekiel, Eugene, S.Rick and throwing tools and killing 4 strong walkers for half an hour ...    I will score 1036 points in 1 hours using SMY without gold and tools. there is no worthy competition SMY!  That is the problem.  It makes absolutely no sense to play with other lineups, like riding a wheelchair when there is a Ferrari ...
    ShadowWalkerShezza10Sg_DeathEngAamie
  • NoiseratingNoiserating Member Posts: 181
    edited June 19
    Games are always going to more and more powerfull characters/equipment to keep people interested and make them use cash to take the latest awesome release. You can't change that. So nerfing Mercer is not a solution to me. 

    You can buff melee characters to bring more balance or introduce a super strong character into the melee team. 
    But that won't solve the fact that GW is becoming too easy (only PvP may bring challenge depending on your opponent and also on the map).

    So developers need to think of how they can increase the level of difficulty to GW for end-game players to keep this game a competitive game. Otherwise if it's too easy people won't bother buying things and will eventually quit the game.
    ShadowWalkerDonTwd
  • NoiseratingNoiserating Member Posts: 181
    => Introducing some new walkers could be a way. 

    => Introduce bonus point conditions could be also a thing :
    +5 RP if you close a lvl with no assault character
    +5RP if you close alvl without being grabbed
    +5RP is you close a lvl with the star hero of the week in your team

    => I don't think increasing the lvl of walkers would make a difference so not a solution for me
    Stalker20Zardoxwalkingbread
  • NoiseratingNoiserating Member Posts: 181
    And maybe make PvP harder on the  latest island, for instance: 

    => The leader of your opponent is hidden so you know only 2 of the opponent's you will face and will not know the group leader trait.

    => PvP Defenders have the ability to choose a bonus for their 3 teams (e.g stun resistance of 50%/ fire resistance of 50% / walkers will only spawns on the side of the attackers...)
     
  • ZardoxZardox Member Posts: 139
    How about just making some islands melee only. Very easy and would make the game more interesting. I agree with GW = SMY. Need a change.
    walkingbread
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