A proposal to make challenge competitive interesting again

24

Comments

  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    edited August 15
    Anjelos said:
    What about just ripping off the Last Stand model completely? Have an ‘expert mode’ with selected heroes (obviously always include star hero) for the whole challenge and give a star multiplier for each round on expert mode. No idea what the multiplier would need to be but I guess high enough so that you’d need to be really good to score 5358 in expert, probably x2 would be enough.

    That would maintain challenge as it is for those of us not at the level to compete in expert and you could maintain the current reward system as it is, just keep it going for higher numbers for the elite players 
    That would actually work as well , though I think it would have less people trying for it :/:smile:
    But not a bad idea at all
    Isn’t having less people going for it kinda the point though? A lot of the concern seems to be about how commonplace max scores are, it’s not such a massive deal to score max on challenge because the leaderboard is often just a randomly generated list of people who’ve done it this week.

    Limited heroes with exactly the same challenge format (for more stars) doesn’t touch the structure or rewards for everyone who’s going to ignore it, but the elite level players can gamble on their skills resulting in them earning even more and return the leaderboard to being something representative of who the truly elite players are. It’s even more of a gamble when you consider not completing it might mean less than 26 round passes next week.

    There’s a fair amount of upset about how challenge is too easy and boring for the top tier players. But for the vast majority of us it’s still a distant aspiration, and for a lot of people who are just able to complete it it’s still a big achievement. This way gives the elites something new to strive for while maintaining the integrity of the current system for the rest of us, and as the model exists for last stand already is potentially fairly straightforward to transfer over to challenge. 

    I wonder how many of the top tier players would accept a harder challenge with more rewards if it meant risking getting less than what they say they’re bored of getting every week  :o
    AnjelosADPaq
  • RohlikzauchemRohlikzauchem Member Posts: 103
    Whats better reward for top tier player then position on LB? 🤔
    BenjaminT
  • RohlikzauchemRohlikzauchem Member Posts: 103
    Not risking it would move that player to second tier. 
    Challenge mode should have some stages players can aim for. In each stage game should get somehow harder. We have currently like 3 or 4 stages. Adding more as game grows is just fine and motivating.

    Stages as i see them right now

    1) Casual, up to RSL where bodyshots come to play

    2) Casual, up to RSL where pure damage teams can make it
    3) Up to round 63

    4) Finnishing challenge

    Time to add further stages
    Anjelos
  • RohlikzauchemRohlikzauchem Member Posts: 103
    And biggest problem to solve this equation is “%damage from target HP” stat. There is reason why in other games are these values very, very low % based. Or sorted out by any kind of cooldown.

    This negates option to add high level zombies as they die in same rate as any low level ones. Or even adding more specials coz they die in exact that rate.

    Only option to add difficulty is in my opinion restriction of certain things in further stages of challenge
    AnjelosRiotZappa
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    Anjelos said:
    What about just ripping off the Last Stand model completely? Have an ‘expert mode’ with selected heroes (obviously always include star hero) for the whole challenge and give a star multiplier for each round on expert mode. No idea what the multiplier would need to be but I guess high enough so that you’d need to be really good to score 5358 in expert, probably x2 would be enough.

    That would maintain challenge as it is for those of us not at the level to compete in expert and you could maintain the current reward system as it is, just keep it going for higher numbers for the elite players 
    That would actually work as well , though I think it would have less people trying for it :/:smile:
    But not a bad idea at all
    Isn’t having less people going for it kinda the point though? A lot of the concern seems to be about how commonplace max scores are, it’s not such a massive deal to score max on challenge because the leaderboard is often just a randomly generated list of people who’ve done it this week.

    Limited heroes with exactly the same challenge format (for more stars) doesn’t touch the structure or rewards for everyone who’s going to ignore it, but the elite level players can gamble on their skills resulting in them earning even more and return the leaderboard to being something representative of who the truly elite players are. It’s even more of a gamble when you consider not completing it might mean less than 26 round passes next week.

    There’s a fair amount of upset about how challenge is too easy and boring for the top tier players. But for the vast majority of us it’s still a distant aspiration, and for a lot of people who are just able to complete it it’s still a big achievement. This way gives the elites something new to strive for while maintaining the integrity of the current system for the rest of us, and as the model exists for last stand already is potentially fairly straightforward to transfer over to challenge. 

    I wonder how many of the top tier players would accept a harder challenge with more rewards if it meant risking getting less than what they say they’re bored of getting every week  :o
    How about mid-lvl player that can finish challenge but not sure if they can do in expert ? For some it will be a great risk doing it like that. 
    So why shouldn't they get the chanse to try harder without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ?

  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    edited August 15
    :D Anjelos said:
    Anjelos said:
    What about just ripping off the Last Stand model completely? Have an ‘expert mode’ with selected heroes (obviously always include star hero) for the whole challenge and give a star multiplier for each round on expert mode. No idea what the multiplier would need to be but I guess high enough so that you’d need to be really good to score 5358 in expert, probably x2 would be enough.

    That would maintain challenge as it is for those of us not at the level to compete in expert and you could maintain the current reward system as it is, just keep it going for higher numbers for the elite players 
    That would actually work as well , though I think it would have less people trying for it :/:smile:
    But not a bad idea at all
    Isn’t having less people going for it kinda the point though? A lot of the concern seems to be about how commonplace max scores are, it’s not such a massive deal to score max on challenge because the leaderboard is often just a randomly generated list of people who’ve done it this week.

    Limited heroes with exactly the same challenge format (for more stars) doesn’t touch the structure or rewards for everyone who’s going to ignore it, but the elite level players can gamble on their skills resulting in them earning even more and return the leaderboard to being something representative of who the truly elite players are. It’s even more of a gamble when you consider not completing it might mean less than 26 round passes next week.

    There’s a fair amount of upset about how challenge is too easy and boring for the top tier players. But for the vast majority of us it’s still a distant aspiration, and for a lot of people who are just able to complete it it’s still a big achievement. This way gives the elites something new to strive for while maintaining the integrity of the current system for the rest of us, and as the model exists for last stand already is potentially fairly straightforward to transfer over to challenge. 

    I wonder how many of the top tier players would accept a harder challenge with more rewards if it meant risking getting less than what they say they’re bored of getting every week  :o
    How about mid-lvl player that can finish challenge but not sure if they can do in expert ? For some it will be a great risk doing it like that. 
    So why shouldn't they get the chanse to try harder without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ?

    I think I’m in that group. I can complete challenge pretty consistently and sometimes even manage to get max score. Can’t speak for anyone else but I’d have no issue with players who have significantly more developed heroes and are much more skilled having a chance to compete at a higher level for even more rewards (and the prestige of a position on a leaderboard which really means something), as long as it doesn’t take anything away from the challenge (or rewards) which is appropriately difficult for players around my level.

    But I don’t really know how to respond to the question, why shouldn’t mid tier players be able to compete at the highest level without incurring any risk. The premise of the question seems rooted in anti-competition. I think if you’re asking that question then you might be opposed to the nature of competition and rewarding skill accordingly. The only answer I can think of is, because they’re (and I’m counting myself in this group) not good enough. Or have I misunderstood the question?  :D
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    :D Anjelos said:
    Anjelos said:
    What about just ripping off the Last Stand model completely? Have an ‘expert mode’ with selected heroes (obviously always include star hero) for the whole challenge and give a star multiplier for each round on expert mode. No idea what the multiplier would need to be but I guess high enough so that you’d need to be really good to score 5358 in expert, probably x2 would be enough.

    That would maintain challenge as it is for those of us not at the level to compete in expert and you could maintain the current reward system as it is, just keep it going for higher numbers for the elite players 
    That would actually work as well , though I think it would have less people trying for it :/:smile:
    But not a bad idea at all
    Isn’t having less people going for it kinda the point though? A lot of the concern seems to be about how commonplace max scores are, it’s not such a massive deal to score max on challenge because the leaderboard is often just a randomly generated list of people who’ve done it this week.

    Limited heroes with exactly the same challenge format (for more stars) doesn’t touch the structure or rewards for everyone who’s going to ignore it, but the elite level players can gamble on their skills resulting in them earning even more and return the leaderboard to being something representative of who the truly elite players are. It’s even more of a gamble when you consider not completing it might mean less than 26 round passes next week.

    There’s a fair amount of upset about how challenge is too easy and boring for the top tier players. But for the vast majority of us it’s still a distant aspiration, and for a lot of people who are just able to complete it it’s still a big achievement. This way gives the elites something new to strive for while maintaining the integrity of the current system for the rest of us, and as the model exists for last stand already is potentially fairly straightforward to transfer over to challenge. 

    I wonder how many of the top tier players would accept a harder challenge with more rewards if it meant risking getting less than what they say they’re bored of getting every week  :o
    How about mid-lvl player that can finish challenge but not sure if they can do in expert ? For some it will be a great risk doing it like that. 
    So why shouldn't they get the chanse to try harder without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ?

    I think I’m in that group. I can complete challenge pretty consistently and sometimes even manage to get max score. Can’t speak for anyone else but I’d have no issue with players who have significantly more developed heroes and are much more skilled having a chance to compete at a higher level for even more rewards (and the prestige of a position on a leaderboard which really means something), as long as it doesn’t take anything away from the challenge (or rewards) which is appropriately difficult for players around my level.

    But I don’t really know how to respond to the question, why shouldn’t mid tier players be able to compete at the highest level without incurring any risk. The premise of the question seems rooted in anti-competition. I think if you’re asking that question then you might be opposed to the nature of competition and rewarding skill accordingly. The only answer I can think of is, because they’re (and I’m counting myself in this group) not good enough. Or have I misunderstood the question?  :D
    No you misunderstood the question a bit .
    I was thinking that even mid players might want to have a chanse for some extra rewards and try something different after they manage to finish the challenge .
    Maybe try their skills a little bit without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ☺️ 
    Maybe have something to play when we have awfully easy challenges like the past week one , and the upcoming as well...
    So why not just add the extra mode on top of the already existed ? Top players - the ones that was always competing for top100 in the past and many new hotshots - really don't need more than a day to finish this so called  "challenge" maximum anyway...

    BloodyChainsaw
  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    edited August 15
    Anjelos said:
    :D Anjelos said:
    Anjelos said:
    What about just ripping off the Last Stand model completely? Have an ‘expert mode’ with selected heroes (obviously always include star hero) for the whole challenge and give a star multiplier for each round on expert mode. No idea what the multiplier would need to be but I guess high enough so that you’d need to be really good to score 5358 in expert, probably x2 would be enough.

    That would maintain challenge as it is for those of us not at the level to compete in expert and you could maintain the current reward system as it is, just keep it going for higher numbers for the elite players 
    That would actually work as well , though I think it would have less people trying for it :/:smile:
    But not a bad idea at all
    Isn’t having less people going for it kinda the point though? A lot of the concern seems to be about how commonplace max scores are, it’s not such a massive deal to score max on challenge because the leaderboard is often just a randomly generated list of people who’ve done it this week.

    Limited heroes with exactly the same challenge format (for more stars) doesn’t touch the structure or rewards for everyone who’s going to ignore it, but the elite level players can gamble on their skills resulting in them earning even more and return the leaderboard to being something representative of who the truly elite players are. It’s even more of a gamble when you consider not completing it might mean less than 26 round passes next week.

    There’s a fair amount of upset about how challenge is too easy and boring for the top tier players. But for the vast majority of us it’s still a distant aspiration, and for a lot of people who are just able to complete it it’s still a big achievement. This way gives the elites something new to strive for while maintaining the integrity of the current system for the rest of us, and as the model exists for last stand already is potentially fairly straightforward to transfer over to challenge. 

    I wonder how many of the top tier players would accept a harder challenge with more rewards if it meant risking getting less than what they say they’re bored of getting every week  :o
    How about mid-lvl player that can finish challenge but not sure if they can do in expert ? For some it will be a great risk doing it like that. 
    So why shouldn't they get the chanse to try harder without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ?

    I think I’m in that group. I can complete challenge pretty consistently and sometimes even manage to get max score. Can’t speak for anyone else but I’d have no issue with players who have significantly more developed heroes and are much more skilled having a chance to compete at a higher level for even more rewards (and the prestige of a position on a leaderboard which really means something), as long as it doesn’t take anything away from the challenge (or rewards) which is appropriately difficult for players around my level.

    But I don’t really know how to respond to the question, why shouldn’t mid tier players be able to compete at the highest level without incurring any risk. The premise of the question seems rooted in anti-competition. I think if you’re asking that question then you might be opposed to the nature of competition and rewarding skill accordingly. The only answer I can think of is, because they’re (and I’m counting myself in this group) not good enough. Or have I misunderstood the question?  :D
    No you misunderstood the question a bit .
    I was thinking that even mid players might want to have a chanse for some extra rewards and try something different after they manage to finish the challenge .
    Maybe try their skills a little bit without loosing the rewards from the normal challenge ☺️ 
    Maybe have something to play when we have awfully easy challenges like the past week one , and the upcoming as well...
    So why not just add the extra mode on top of the already existed ? Top players - the ones that was always competing for top100 in the past and many new hotshots - really don't need more than a day to finish this so called  "challenge" maximum anyway...


    Haha! Fair enough! In that case I think I’m just much more heartless than you  :D

    Because I think it’s quite fair to say to us mid tier players ‘you can have a go if you want, but it’s probably not going to go well because you’re not good enough’  :D

    Same thing happens in last stand in expert, and if you decide to have a go at islands 19/20 before you’re ready.

    But I don’t think the players who can push hard to just complete challenge are complaining, because it’s still difficult enough for them to be interesting. When they get so good that completing challenge becomes easy and boring they could have a crack at expert challenge  :#
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,427
    The harder you make it the more people will use tools. Are you okay with that or are we looking to ban tools as well?


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    ATLAS-Z said:
    The harder you make it the more people will use tools. Are you okay with that or are we looking to ban tools as well?
    Not sure if you’re asking @Anjelos or everyone, but it wouldn’t make any sense to me to ban tools. I don’t think anyone would be happy about that, would they?
  • RohlikzauchemRohlikzauchem Member Posts: 103
    ATLAS-Z said:
    The harder you make it the more people will use tools. Are you okay with that or are we looking to ban tools as well?
    There are simplier restrictions to tools like extending cooldown as challenge goes further. Same can be done with Mercer LT actualy. Add few turns cooldown to be able to use its massive HP reduction. And game cures atleast a bit. 
  • euchideuchid Member Posts: 375
    Anjelos said:
    euchid said:
    200 Players having lvl 10 SMY want to find out who is the best. Only solution would be who can finish fastest.
    I finish challenge with my alt account with 1pink mercer , no reroll and no badges :') 
    It is the 1k players that actually know how to play 😂
    And heroes lvl 12 . And only one decimator special weapon :') 
    If you think you need lvl10 smy to finish challenge , then you just have no idea how to play the game :')

    No, you cant read.
    I typed let be the fastest who finish the challenge lead the board.
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,427
    edited August 15
    euchid said:
    Anjelos said:
    euchid said:
    200 Players having lvl 10 SMY want to find out who is the best. Only solution would be who can finish fastest.
    I finish challenge with my alt account with 1pink mercer , no reroll and no badges :') 
    It is the 1k players that actually know how to play 😂
    And heroes lvl 12 . And only one decimator special weapon :') 
    If you think you need lvl10 smy to finish challenge , then you just have no idea how to play the game :')

    No, you cant read.
    I typed let be the fastest who finish the challenge lead the board.

    So those people sitting at home with no life no work and no responsibilities on Wednesday should be rewarded? I'm not sure that's fair.

    I work 10 hour shift with no time to play at work until Saturday when I'm off. 

    But hey maybe I'm missing something. 🤷


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / (OG) / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
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    AnjelosMuirnaDresden
  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    ATLAS-Z said:
    euchid said:
    Anjelos said:
    euchid said:
    200 Players having lvl 10 SMY want to find out who is the best. Only solution would be who can finish fastest.
    I finish challenge with my alt account with 1pink mercer , no reroll and no badges :') 
    It is the 1k players that actually know how to play 😂
    And heroes lvl 12 . And only one decimator special weapon :') 
    If you think you need lvl10 smy to finish challenge , then you just have no idea how to play the game :')

    No, you cant read.
    I typed let be the fastest who finish the challenge lead the board.

    So those people sitting at home with no life no work and no responsibilities on Wednesday should be rewarded? I'm not sure that's fair.

    I work 10 hour shift with no time to play at work until Saturday when I'm off. 

    But hey maybe I'm missing something. 🤷
    I think you missed the sarcasm  ;)
    ATLAS-Z
  • BenjaminTBenjaminT Member Posts: 281
    edited August 15
    What if Expert mode kicked in at round 60?

    Everyone does the same challenge up until that point, you get whatever round passes you earned the week before. Do max round passes end at round 59? It must be around that point.

    At round 60 you can opt to complete the remaining rounds in expert mode. This means you have a limited number of heroes, but the advantage is double stars applies for the rest of the challenge. You can 3 star the last 20 rounds and score a lot higher than you would 4 staring them in normal mode, which means you’ll climb above all the regular chumps like me who’ll carry on doing as normal. If you’re really good you can 4 star the rest of the rounds and double the stars anyone would get playing normal mode. But if you can’t 3 star enough of them, or if you 1 star them all, then you’ll score less than the regular players scoring 5358.

    There’ll probably be some star heroes and mapsets for which max score will be practically impossible for almost everyone. Then all the endgamers have a real challenge, the leaderboard will really mean something and everything else will stay the same for the rest of us. I don’t know anything about making games but that sounds fairly straightforward to implement 
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,427
    Said it before, add on XX more rounds but with no rewards. Those who care about leader board will push on regardless, those who just want the goodies wont. 


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    BloodyChainsawRiotZappa
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    ATLAS-Z said:
    The harder you make it the more people will use tools. Are you okay with that or are we looking to ban tools as well?
    I can think many maps that if you don't have the proper toon , they won't be possible even if you can use 20  flares :') 
    So not really a problem tbh - though I was never a supporter of tools  . 
    ( I was always thinking that instead of "bruised" star ,we should have a star for tools - but seems not many people are fans of the idea 😁)
    BloodyChainsaw
  • ATLAS-ZATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,427
    BigBob said:
    @ATLAS-Z  Wait, I’m retired, does that mean I don’t have a life. Well damn! 😂

    Indeed. You just earned it. 😉🍺


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  • FuriousMoldovanFuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 2,101
    edited August 15
    Good idea from OP but it will be almost the same just with additional 40 rounds (and more time required).

    There will always be a lot of ties as long as there's a max stars cap.

    I have more issues with using the same SH as leader. This has to be changed. It's boring.

    Allow SH in any position for an extra star - that's what we need.
    @Lexia
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
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  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 176
    I think you guys need to be honest with us and yourselves that this doesn't have to do with being bored. It has to do with ego and needing something to whine about. When I proposed a simple solution for those of you tying every week on the leaderboard -- to start competing in your own league with a standardized set of rules to make it harder for all of you and screenrecordings to prove compliance -- there have been exactly 0 sign ups. Yet, this could be implemented immediately and with zero additional bugs. You would all know who ranked and scored where and could be tortured playing with a team of Merle, hunter Morgan, hunter Maggie to your hearts content, for example, without forcing it on the rest of us. But, sob, then you wouldn't be as high on the leaderboard and would miss out on a few rewards you don't even need.
    FuriousMoldovanADPaqAnjelos
  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 176
    My proposal to make Challenge more interesting is as follows:

    NG can reinstate permadeath for all players who are bored. Permadeath includes all heroes and all game modes, including Last Stand Expert mode. Sounds fun to me -- definitely not boring!
    FuriousMoldovanShadowWalkerGovernatorRiotZappa
  • xbamfxxbamfx Member Posts: 1,436
    My proposal: Delete the game. The_End. 
    ShadowWalkerRiotZappa
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    Muirna said:
    I think you guys need to be honest with us and yourselves that this doesn't have to do with being bored. It has to do with ego and needing something to whine about. When I proposed a simple solution for those of you tying every week on the leaderboard -- to start competing in your own league with a standardized set of rules to make it harder for all of you and screenrecordings to prove compliance -- there have been exactly 0 sign ups. Yet, this could be implemented immediately and with zero additional bugs. You would all know who ranked and scored where and could be tortured playing with a team of Merle, hunter Morgan, hunter Maggie to your hearts content, for example, without forcing it on the rest of us. But, sob, then you wouldn't be as high on the leaderboard and would miss out on a few rewards you don't even need.
    Actually we already did that as intra for many weeks and is quite exciting .had a channel firecheese casino making bets on it every week .And surely it would be more fun with more people .
    Yes , it is freaky boring having 40heroes and only need to use 2+sh.
    Some people actually like to compete and find ways for maps that are hard .:) It is how the game was for 4 years and the reason it growed as much ....the fact that missions was like small riddles .
    People also liked wild cup a lot ,people also liked national wars and many other small competition that makes a game exciting .

    Sports and games usually have a target in case you never notice , they don't say thank you for participation you are all winners 🏆.
    That happens only in kindergartens , and if I judge from your following silly comment, that is how far your brain can go to troll on a proposal to make the ge a little be like it used to .
    Be sure , if there wasn't line and discord app and people didn't bond that much after so many years , game would be probably dead , cause yes it is hell boring at the moment . 

    ADPaqBloodyChainsaw
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    Adeline said:
    Am I the only one who doesn't feel bored so far? LOL
    I downloaded this game on the 2nd day after it launched - thanks to NG for answering my question, now my signature can be completed :)
    And have never stopped playing or took a break.

    The only thing that made me feel bored and feel like quitting was to even try playing an alternate account. So you have to ask yourself if you are playing a second account that makes you have to do everything twice.

    I do have a life too, I have work, household chores to do, and to settle my child to sleep before I can even start playing the challenge every Wednesday. So it doesn't feel right if the leaderboard is based on who finished the fastest like what ATLAS has mentioned.
    Sweet Adeline , you know how polite I am usually - so I will answer the following without stating the obvious reasons of why and how - yes probably you are one of the very few :))))


  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    Muirna said:
    My proposal to make Challenge more interesting is as follows:

    NG can reinstate permadeath for all players who are bored. Permadeath includes all heroes and all game modes, including Last Stand Expert mode. Sounds fun to me -- definitely not boring!
    Immature , rude and off topic  :):smile:
    RohlikzauchemBloodyChainsaw
  • AnjelosAnjelos Member Posts: 69
    xbamfx said:
    My proposal: Delete the game. The_End. 
    Trying like many to avoid exactly that actually
    BloodyChainsaw
  • MuirnaMuirna Member Posts: 176
    Anjelos said:
    Muirna said:
    My proposal to make Challenge more interesting is as follows:

    NG can reinstate permadeath for all players who are bored. Permadeath includes all heroes and all game modes, including Last Stand Expert mode. Sounds fun to me -- definitely not boring!
    Immature , rude and off topic  :):smile:
    I'm actually serious. It would make it more challenging.
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